Keep in mind that if you wish to follow history the confederates were no more racist then those of the north. (Draft Riots anyone?) Not too mention that blacks in the confederate armies (Oh yeah something else we don’t mention too much these days huh…) were paid the same by law as their white counterparts, AND they served in the same brigades. This was contrary to the north which segragated the units and refused to pay a negro the same as a white.

Also, during the reunion of the civil war armies – Blacks did not show up for the Union, yet many blacks showed up voluntarily for the Confederacy reunion, I wonder why? – If it was so “evil” why would they show up for it?

*Those who win the wars, write the history* – simple as that.

But, apparently many fail to appreciate that.

God spoke to me last night. He apologized for most of you.

The Wolf and the Lamb

WOLF, meeting with a Lamb astray from the fold, resolved not to lay violent hands on him, but to find some plea to justify to the Lamb the Wolf’s right to eat him. He thus addressed him: “Sirrah, last year you grossly insulted me.” “Indeed,” bleated the Lamb in a mournful tone of voice, “I was not then born.” Then said the Wolf, “You feed in my pasture.” “No, good sir,” replied the Lamb, “I have not yet tasted grass.” Again said the Wolf, “You drink of my well.” “No,” exclaimed the Lamb, “I never yet drank water, for as yet my mother’s milk is both food and drink to me.” Upon which the Wolf seized him and ate him up, saying, “Well! I won’t remain supperless, even though you refute every one of my imputations.” The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny.

The point is that you brought up your view that those that have studied history understand that marriage is one man married to one woman.

It is amusing that you dismiss a document that is 2,000 years old as a source for history – because it was written 2,000 years ago.

Frankly, that makes very little sense.

As others have pointed out, each decade more discoveries are found that support the historical information recorded in the bible.

As to the Christain faith “starting wars” – wow! Now that statement reveals the need for you (Terry) to go back a study history, as well as the bible.

But of course, being as you enjoy the role of being a sniper – you just don’t have time to do that – according to your posts.

Terry, I truely encourage you to take the time to read the bible – and then perhaps you will learn how foolish your comment about those that have – really is.

Getting back to the actual topic of this forum – the GA apologizing for slavery.

* It doesn’t hurt anything – other than wasting precious time when the GA could be doing something meaningful instead

* It doesn’t do anything – because, as we have read here – the “apology” will not lead to forgiveness

* In my opinion it was far more politically motivated then sincere – because, no of the GA members had anything do do with the slavery of Blacks in Virginia

But, at the end of the day – it is clear to me it did serve a purpose. It caused people to reveal their views on the matter – and perhaps, IF anyone is listening to anyone else – understanding has happened.

As Terry probably meant to say with her ‘History Lessons’ comment – knowledge is good (Faber College – Animal House). Studying history is very useful for helping us all to better understand how the events of today are impacted by the events of the past. For some people, the “slavery” of the past does impact their lives – in some cases due to how others precieve them based on the color of their skin. Also based on how they view preceive the actions of others – based on the color of their own skin – and on the color of the skin of others they interact with.

In closing, it is also true that if a person keeps picking off the scabs on their wounds before the wound heals – it will never heal.

Healing is good too.

One could make a strong argument that abstinence-only education in aids-ridden Africa is essentially genocide.

“Christianity did not start wars.”
But you can’t deny a literal interpretation of specific OT verses have been used to justify violence.

“The official religion of the Communists is atheism.”
That doesn’t mean communism IS atheism. No one was killed in the NAME of atheism.

With the invention of the printing press, something very important happened. Copies of the Bible became inexpensive. That simple fact, perhaps more than any other, initiated the Protestant Reformation.

With the Protestant Reformation, people start feuding over their religious beliefs. People, after all, will be people. However, over time more and more people actually read the Bible. Eventually, enough people began to understand Jesus’ teachings. They realized that Jesus would not condone one person trying to force Christianity on another.

In the 20th Century, we did not fight wars over religion. WWI and WWII had almost nothing to do with religion. These wars were principally about the accumulation of power by a godless elite. More than anything else, tyrants suppressed religion. Hitler’s version of Christianity was just plain weird. The official religion of the Communists is atheism.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. Christianity (and religion in general, for that matter) is responsible for MOST wars throughout History. The fact alone that the bible has been changed throughout History by tyrants and rulers makes it irrelevent.

“Should Virginia apologize for slavery? Should we apologize to American Indians? I’m of Irish descent. Should we also apologize for the way Irish immigrants were treated when they came to America?” These are all questions of conservat…

It is true that rulers and tyrants have tried to use the Bible to prop up their rule. It is also true that men interpret and translate the old scriptures incorporated into the Bible imperfectly. What would you have Christians do, prove men are perfect? The Bible was intended for sinners, not angels.

For generations, the Bible has inspired honest scholars to dedicate years of their lives to ensure the accuracy of the Bible. The Bible remains our best eyewitness account of events that happened long ago. That makes the Bible both a book of faith and a history.

The bible as a history lesson? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, I’d sooner burn the damn thing. Sorry, no “history lesson” should be taught from a book that’s more than 2,000 years old and has been changed throughout history to benefit rulers and tyrants (not to mention the fact that it can’t even be directly translated into English). Don’t be a fool.

Our laws provide expression of our ideals as a People. The fact we actually enforce and live by those laws give those ideals reality. Battlefield cemeteries throughout this nation and lifetimes of dedicated struggle attest to the difficulty of making and keeping such laws.

What good is a politician mouthing empty words in an apology for sins he did not commit to a People who now abhor the acts he condemns? Such a politician is only a latecomer taking credit for battles already fought and won by others. We need leaders who make good laws and enforce those laws; we do not need more hot air.

In any event, the original post made no reference to anything other that Virginia – not individuals. I’m glad to know that you are on board with it.

Governments do make apologies. Take a look at the national anti-lynching resolution sponsored by none other than George Allen. It is appropriate when the government perpetrated the wrong.

However, if “we are talking about the Commonwealth of Virginia saying to its black and Native American citizens that the treatment of blacks and Native Americans at the hand of the state was wrong,” I am okay with that. Such treatment is already against the law, we do not need to do anything further to make it so.

Governments do not apologies; governments make laws. Our leaders can neither apologize (and repent) nor can they forgive on our behalf.

It would seem like it would be a point of shame that they would want to forget. Instead I see them waving that confederate flag like a red badge of courage.

Slavery on the other hand is not something that should be remembered for the sake of pride. It is a horrible situation that black people had to endure. It should it remembered just so that we don’t make the same mistakes again. Just like the Holocaust, and the Indian Massacures. These are things that should never be forgotten so that future generations can learn from the.

We aren’t talking about forgiveness or repentance. We are talking about the Commonwealth of Virginia saying to its black and Native American citizens that the treatment of blacks and Native Americans at the hand of the state was wrong.

Don’t try to add into the apology anything other than what it is.

Forgiveness has does have its limitations. Only God can forgive all our sins; all we can do is forgive those who have sinned against us. Fortunately, an apology is not required. For when we do forgive, the person most blessed is the person who forgives.

Ultimately, an apology is important only to those who have something they wish to repent. Is this “apology” we have discussed about repentance? I hardly think so.

If someone apologizes to me, and I accept, but I continue to beat the person up over what he apologized for, i didn’t really accept it, did i?

Oh, you mean the meaning of marriage that bigots have artificially made up, and inappropriately written into the Constitution? That definition of marriage? Or the one I’ve always know it to be: two LOVING indviduals without giving specification to race, gender, or religious creed.

I think YOU need a history lesson.

How regrettable! I understand that because I chose to apologize the wrong type of abomination, my apology was insufficient. So I must carry on. I hereby apologize for the crimes of Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and all the tyrants who ever lived. Do you all feel better now? I trust that at some of you will find meaning in this meaningless gesture.

Usually when an apology is offered, and accepted, the issue is considered to be in the past and dropped.

Is that really going to happen?

I don’t know. Let’s try it and find out. Worse case, it doesn’t happen, and life goes on. That’s not so bad, is it?

Your apology is accepted – absolutely.

Will the subject linger? Probably. But why? Because the US has never acknowledged what you said.

Slavery was an abomination …. I’m sorry it happened.
Thank you.

Now, was that so hard?

For some reason I do not understand, God has not seen fit to apologize for allowing all these awful things to happen. Nonetheless, I will do my part. I apologize. There it is. It is done. Do you all feel better now?

Slavery was an abomination (but hey…I’m a Northerner too). I’m sorry it happened.

Here’s my key. Usually when an apology is offered, and accepted, the issue is considered to be in the past and dropped.

Is that really going to happen?

Isn’t that why you started this blog in the first place?

The fact is that our country has NEVER started the dialogue needed between black and white citizens to truly put this slavery issue behind us.

As far as the bill before Congress…for the life of me no one has given an explanation of what harm will result if an overdue apology is made….It says a lot that Republicans are already opposing this bill yet remain AFFIRMATIVELY AND SUPPORTIVELY silent over Virgil Goode’s recent remarks attacking a black muslim, duly elected to Congress.

Kudos to Vivian!

I simply informed you of the difference. BTW, the reason no soldiers were tried for treason after the Civil War was that the soldiers’ oaths were to their STATES, not to the United States. Robert E. Lee actually stated, when he accepted the position of leader of the Confederate Army, that his sympathies lay with the Union, but that his oath was to Virginia.

This very year we’re celebrating events that took place 400 years ago. Any groveling and begging there? Acknowledgment of past events and errors isn’t about pity at all. It’s about objective honesty about where we come from, which is necessary for moving forward in an authentic way. For those who emphasize the many CW soldiers who didn’t own slaves, who were were protecting their homes and not defending slavery, this should not be a problem.

At one maudlin extreme of regretting past mistakes, the only self-pity for the distant past that I’ve heard in the last several years came from someone whose ancestors lost the family farm for being too nice to their slaves. If that strikes anyone as anecdotal cherry picking, when I leave for work in a few minutes, displays of slave chains will not be reminding me of the past, but a gauntlet of Confederate flags do mark the way.