I asked you to avoid stereotypes and overgeneralizations. You responded with this stereotype, overgeneralization, and unfortunate inaccuracy:
“Are you trying to tell me that a majority of the welfare system is comprised of the disabled? Wrong!! I never mentioned anything about the disabled.”

No you didn’t, r, and that’s exactly the point.

Perhaps you need to go on over to social services and familiarize yourself with the truth, r. Perhaps you need to figure out exactly what you mean by “the welfare system,” and whether your use of that term is any use at all in this discussion. Perhaps you need to find out who really gets “welfare” or “handouts.” Is it someone who looks and talks just like your mom, but who ran out of funds to pay for the nursing facility? Is it someone whose child was born developmentally disabled, but who chooses to do the grueling, thankless work of caring for their son or daughter each and every day, rather than institutionalizing their loved one (which is, strangely enough, a more expensive alternative for the “welfare system”). Is it the person who developed cancer and just doesn’t have the funds and insurance needed to fight it, or the strength to continue to support his or her family? Or are the social workers just sitting over there, waiting to write out a check whenever a cheat, a lazy person, or a drug addict comes knocking?

Perhaps you need to learn more about welfare reform, and work requirements, and eligibilty requirements, and the reality of who actually receives these “handouts.” The requirements are actually quite stringent, and sometimes a bit harsh, while the benefits are fairly modest.

Most importantly, perhaps you should acknowledge that people are not their skin color, or their income level, or even their ability or disability. They are people, just people, individuals who should be judged, if at all, on their individual characteristics. I challenge you to look one of the recipients of these “handouts” in the eye every once in awhile, and to take the time to learn their story. If you do, I’m sure you’ll find the courage to stop spouting off about “handouts.”

http://www.wesleyan.edu/econ/Foley111207.pdf

Did they randomly increase the welfare payments in some areas and not others, to see the correlation, or are they just basing this on time-dependent data which is subject to other influences?

The second paragraph is a complete non-sequitur. There is no evidence presented there that welfare contributes to the existence of single-parent families.

Has it ever occurred to you that anti-social parents might have anti-social children, and that anti-social parents are simply less likely to get married because they ARE anti-social?

Last year, the Maryland NAACP released a report concluding that “the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today.”(1) Their conclusion appears to be confirmed by academic research. For example, research by Dr. June O’Neill’s and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.(2)

Welfare contributes to crime in several ways. First, children from single-parent families are more likely to become involved in criminal activity. According to one study, children raised in single-parent families are one-third more likely to exhibit anti-social behavior.(3) Moreover, O’Neill found that, holding other variables constant, black children from single- parent households are twice as likely to commit crimes as black children from a family where the father is present. Nearly 70 percent of juveniles in state reform institutions come from fatherless homes, as do 43 percent of prison inmates.(4) Research indicates a direct correlation between crime rates and the number of single-parent families in a neighborhood.(5)

That’s not the point. The point is that Black (and Hispanic) murder rates are higher at all levels of income. Welfare does not cause poor Whites to commit crimes, so there is no reason to presume that it has that effect on Blacks and Hispanics.

“With regards to the Black Culture problem it is the Black leaders that need to take care of this problem and recognize that there may some influences that are effecting them (Hip Hop industry is just one of many).”

There are some who are trying to do just that, such as Bill Cosby.

There may be more whites on welfare, however a higher percentage with regards to population, are black and hispanic.

I will concede that it is a culture problem, however, people with regards to race need to be accountable for their own decisions. I beleive the government local, state and federal is part of this problem.

My opinion is that the solution to this problem not more social services. People are going to have to accountable for their actions regardless of race. They need not be awarded jobs, loans, houses, etc. because they are black, white or hispanic. Or at the very least the government needs to tighten its purse more than ever.

With regards to the Black Culture problem it is the Black leaders that need to take care of this problem and recognize that there may some influences that are effecting them (Hip Hop industry is just one of many).

I really don’t see Welfare as the culprit here. There are more Whites on Welfare than Blacks, but the Black murder rate is five times higher, regardless of income.

Nor do I think the problem is “racial.” Blacks are not genetically more prone to be criminals.

The problem is cultural. So the question becomes, how do we change the culture?

Keep on doing what you are doing, because it doesn’t work. How lame, you guys can’t even give me a hint of a solution to this problem.

Do you even realize when people get together to discuss a problem, part of the exercise is to involve participation with regards possibly solutions.

Wait, I am sorry, you guys don’t know how to do that! How embarrassing!

~

However, all kinds aren’t required for every issue. Whatever the solution is, rlewis, you are neither part of it nor worthy of being privy to it. So just walk on, and find another hobby horse to ride.

Are you trying to tell me that a majority of the welfare system is comprised of the disabled? Wrong!!

I never mentioned anything about the disabled.

What is your solution Spotter, surely you have a thought. I have yet to receive a suggestion on the solution from Vivian, BM, F.T.

Do you honestly think the system is working? Please give me a break.

As I have asked Vivian and BM, you must have a thought on the solution to this problem, if so, then please let me hear it almighty knowing one!

Socialism doesn’t work anymore, Sorry.

If you have something to say, why play games? Spit it out. After all, given the flavor of your comments so far, it must taste bad in your mouth.

Other than being obnoxious, what do you think you are doing? It’s obvious you aren’t the least bit interested in understanding what Vivian was originally writing about, in solving social problems, or even having a civil conversation.

You surely have some thought to a solution, MB. Come on, let me hear it. It certainly is not discussions such as the State of the Black Union and the such.

~

And just to resurrect something upthread – the stop snitchin’ thing is pretty easily explained as an attempt to exert what little control its adherents think they have.* They can’t beat the system, they can’t beat the police, but they sure can beat their neighbors. It sends me around the )(*@#@ bend.

*Well, that and the fact that it finally provides a new t-shirt design for the local sweatshops.

I will state my thesis again for clarity (and it is what Vivian states at the end): This is “a clear and present danger” facing all of us, right now that can only get worst unless, we all put aside the “blame game”, focus on the “battlefield” as it is today and develop some all inclusive strategies to stop this tied of violence. It will take the Black community, white community and every other ethnic community to join in because what happens in one community affects the community next to it, and next to it and next to it; It will take the public and private schools, business, religious (again inclusive), judicial, corrections, police, civic leagues, state and federal legislatures, media, higher educ and other partners working together to solve this issues. It will take the young, old, rich, no so rich, empty nesters, grandparents, and parents to do what they can. It may not be us all doing the same tasks or actions but all the tasks/actions we do will support the greater goal of creating a community that will promote a way of life that benefits all and is intolerable of actiivities that threaten the welfare of the greater whole.

So I commend everyone for responding, but there isn’t time to dwell too long on what we see as the cause of such a complex issue to the point that we take the easy way out, close our minds and ears to other thoughts and point fingers. There is some legitmacy to most of the arguments so we have to hear them out, find those points of valid consideration and move on to solving the overall problem.

(while some of us adults are bickering, too many of our children, black, white, rich and poor, are dying)

Stay tuned to events to address these issues and get involved….heighten your courage and observation of your own surroundings and make “noise” about what you see…we all have to apply some “persistent and determined pressure” to turn this tide of violence and crime among our youth.

Billy Cook

As for your co-workers – well, they, like you, are entitled to their opinion, just as I am entitled to mine. I don’t think all white people think alike, so why would you assume that all black people do?

Your attitude is that of someone who is uninformed. So you were poor – so was I. So you had two parents – so did I, although my mother didn’t work outside the home. So you had 4 siblings – I had 7. So you were taught to have a job at 14, work around the house, be educated and believe in God. So was I.

So what is this “black community” junk you’re laying out? Am I not a part of the black community? My family didn’t get “handouts.” So what? What bearing does that have on anything?

If you are not a part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. And if you don’t like reading what I write, well, by all means feel free to stay away.

If my attitude is part of the problem, then you should have a solution. What is your solution to this problem?! What is the answer?!

I have several black co workers and friends that would disagree with your line of thinking with regards to race and the black community. But for you, if appears as though you have blinders. What a shame.

I grew up in a lower middle class white family, both parents worked two jobs, I had 4 other brothers and sisters. We were taught to work hard, think for ourselves, have a job at 14, work around the house, be educated and believe in god. This paid great dividends. The black community has the same opportunity if not more.

You are absolutely wrong if you don’t think giving people handouts is a problem! What a joke! Lets see, your response will be the same old garbage about how I don’t get it and don’t understand. Blah! Blah! Blah! I am sick and tired of hearing the same old lame excuses for the problems in the black community.

I believe that it was an unintended consequence; others think it was intentional.

rlewis – the black community prior to integration was one of self-sufficiency. Remember, blacks couldn’t shop at white stores or eat at white restaurants or live in white neighborhoods ~ the list is endless. So the community provided these things. Church Street is one example. Once integration occurred, the black businesses – who paid higher prices for their goods so had to charge more, or who were unable to carry the variety of goods – were less necessary. Customers could go to white stores. They could sit downstairs in a theater. They could live anywhere they wanted. So the “community” dispersed.

As for the question of the government – I hate to say it but your bias is showing. The largest recipients of government programs are white, not black. Those making the decisions on school choice are white, not black. Your attitude is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Carla – the question is why does such an attitude exist? Where does it come from? And how do we combat it?

Terry – I’m not saying that the black middle class right now isn’t larger, but I will say that it existed before integration, albeit not as visible to most. And I’m not so sure that desegregation resulted in a better education. The standards by which we measure things have changed. What I know is that the education my older sisters got was far more comprehensive than my own. They attended segregated schools (at least for some time), I never did.

It’s a bitter irony that while progress brings more opportunity to some, it can dish out more hopelessness to others. In Richmond today there is a much larger black middle class than there was when I was growing up during the time of Massive Resistance. But life today for many children in the projects is probably less nurturing, and the road out of there may be tougher to travel, unless one is unusually gifted or lucky.

Desegregation seems to have helped many black citizens get a better education, but some public schools in Richmond are still far better than others. And, yes, it’s easy to guess which are which by knowing where the school is located.

I’m just a middle-aged white lady. Maybe there’s something I’m not getting or don’t understand. But when I talk to the mothers, aunts, sisters, grandmothers of the young black men who take up an inordinate amount of my time I get a glimpse into their pain and distress and their desire to protect their young men and see them make it through to middle age without going to jail or being injured or killed by other young black men or themselves injuring or killing other young black men. It’s not that there’s a lack of caring there. It’s not that these young men are animals or evil or incapable of improving themselves. But among many of them I sense that they are trapped in expectations that this is the way things are and will always be. They are affectionate and loyal to family and friends, but seem alienated from the larger society. The man who wore a “Stop Snitching” tee to my office to get married was loving toward his bride. He seemed like a good guy. But he was wearing a tee shirt which proclaims that crime should not be reported, that one should not bear witness against those who perpetrate crimes, that there is something dishonorable in seeking stability and safety from crime in society at large, and he seemed to miss the little start I gave when I read it, as jaded as I am, because it was so bare in its anti-social message. It’s a terrible, terrible thing, but those shirts are selling like hotcakes in all the black neighborhoods of the DC Metro area, particularly the most crime-ridden ones. The shirt is symptomatic of an attitude. And as long as the attitude is prevalent and accepted and even expected then there will be no improvement. We can keep improving opportunities all we want, but until the community at large says Enough to this, and it becomes socially unacceptable to wear such a shirt and to sport such an attitude, then the cycle of violence will continue and another generation will be lost.

-Are not government programs part of the problem? Allowing the black community to exploit and take advantage of the welfare system or not allowing school choice for education. Those who can not afford to get out of the neighborhoods choose not to because then the government programs would end. It is far easier to take advantage of a system that allows for laziness and handouts.

I’ve always been more than a little bit unsettled by W.E.B. DuBois’ notion of the Talented Tenth — I like to think instead that everyone has a talent or ability that allows him to be a piece of the puzzle — but the racial component behind a lot of the stories at a national level and at a local level has left me wondering if I shouldn’t start re-reading some of the older black social scholars and look to them for some answers about what’s happening now. DuBois argued that the primary goal for elevating black Americans was to nurture the best of their race, that they might then lead the black community at large towards a better future and “away from the contamination and death of the Worst, in their own and other races.”

Today it seems like more opportunities for success are available to individual black Americans than ever before — there’s a black man running for President! And he’s a front-runner! Yet black communities across the country seem to remain mired in the contamination and death against which DuBois warned us. You write, Vivian, of the distintergration of the village in post-intergration America: “Gone from the neighborhoods were many of the role models. Left behind, mostly, were those who couldn’t afford to get out.” It seems as though the Best failed to lead the Mass away from the Worst (to use DuBois’ terminology). If anything, the Greek tragedy that was Michael Vick’s career reinforces for me the worry that the Worst might instead by leading the Best, and not the other way around.

What the hell is going on here? Is this a failure of leadership? A lack of direction?

It’s hard for me to answer from an outside perspective, but as I re-read DuBois alongside your comment, I noted a few things:

1. DuBois’ introduction makes references to the sort of direction black Americans need to find, and cautions against easier, materialistic deviations: “If we make money the object of man-training, we shall develop money-makers but not necessarily men; if we make technical skill the object of education, we may possess artisans but not, in nature, men. Men we shall have only as we make manhood the object of the work of the schools [...] On this foundation we may build bread winning, skill of hand and quickness of brain, with never a fear lest the child and man mistake the means of living for the object of life.” It occurs to me that some of black America’s highest-profile role models are huge financial successes as professional athletes, rappers, etc, but they’re not necessarily good men. Has the way been lost? Has the means of living really been mistaken for the object of life?

2. DuBois’ argument is structured into three sections, the first of which details how the best among black Americans are “worthy of leadership.” Leadership is a funny thing: I don’t know that anyone can be worthy of leaderhip of deserve it, it must instead be earned. And while many of the Americans he exemplifies definitively earned their leadership roles (eg Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglas), I’m left to wonder how or why black Americans who are moving in the right direction aren’t the leading lights in their community. Someone once said that a leader with no followers is just another guy taking a walk, and it seem to me that the mainstream of black communities isn’t quite as interested in following the modern iteration of the Talented Tenth as they were in the days of Dr. King. And I don’t know *why* this seems to be true; I only recognize the apparent disconnect between leader and follower. The idea that black Americans are still concerned whether Barack Obama is “black enough” reiterates this disconnect for me every day.