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	<title>Comments on: A Rotten Way to Pick a President</title>
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		<title>By: sleepless in virginia</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sleepless in virginia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Vivian,  I just came across this article regarding Washington state&#039;s experience with caucuses versus primaries:

Mid-Columbia &#124; Kennewick, Pasco and Richland, Washington
Wednesday, Feb. 20, 2008
Washington results prove the caucus/primary disconnect 

Tuesday&#039;s primary vote provided further proof of why Washington state voters are angry with the two major political parties.

The primaries brought out about 1.5 million voters, more than five times the number who participated in the caucuses. Results of the votes counted Tuesday varied considerably from the caucuses, although ultimately the two big winners were the same.

Republican John McCain, who squeaked through the caucuses so closely that runner-up Mike Huckabee cried for a recount, won handily in the primary voting, taking about 49 percent of the total to Huckabee&#039;s 21 percent. That compares with just over 25 percent that McCain received in the caucuses. 

A great example of the caucus/primary disconnect came with Republican (Libertarian?) Ron Paul, who took 21.5 percent of the caucus vote, but won only about 7 percent of Tuesday&#039;s vote.

Half of the Republican delegates were awarded through the caucuses, with the other half to come from the primary results.

Democrats, who chose to award all of their delegates through the caucuses and to ignore the primary totally, picked Barack Obama in both the caucuses and the primary.

But while Obama took 68 percent of the caucus vote, he was just squeaking by Tuesday with 50 percent of the vote to Hillary Clinton&#039;s 47 percent.

Caucuses have long been criticized for not producing outcomes that are representative of the electorate&#039;s true opinion. It&#039;s easy for well-mobilized supporters of a candidate to pack the caucuses, which have very small turnout compared with a primary vote.

Anyone who doubts that need only recall televangelist Pat Robertson&#039;s victory in the 1988 Washington Republican caucuses -- his only victory in an otherwise ignored candidacy. Color Washington state red for embarrassment in that election.

The state&#039;s voters approved an initiative establishing the primary, but the political parties, especially the Democrats, have stubbornly stuck to an antiquated system to select candidates. It&#039;s a system that clearly doesn&#039;t accurately reflect what the voters want.

One can only wonder how long it will be before the parties get the message and listen to the people.

Rick Larson: 582-1522; rlarson@tricityherald.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vivian,  I just came across this article regarding Washington state&#8217;s experience with caucuses versus primaries:</p>
<p>Mid-Columbia | Kennewick, Pasco and Richland, Washington<br />
Wednesday, Feb. 20, 2008<br />
Washington results prove the caucus/primary disconnect </p>
<p>Tuesday&#8217;s primary vote provided further proof of why Washington state voters are angry with the two major political parties.</p>
<p>The primaries brought out about 1.5 million voters, more than five times the number who participated in the caucuses. Results of the votes counted Tuesday varied considerably from the caucuses, although ultimately the two big winners were the same.</p>
<p>Republican John McCain, who squeaked through the caucuses so closely that runner-up Mike Huckabee cried for a recount, won handily in the primary voting, taking about 49 percent of the total to Huckabee&#8217;s 21 percent. That compares with just over 25 percent that McCain received in the caucuses. </p>
<p>A great example of the caucus/primary disconnect came with Republican (Libertarian?) Ron Paul, who took 21.5 percent of the caucus vote, but won only about 7 percent of Tuesday&#8217;s vote.</p>
<p>Half of the Republican delegates were awarded through the caucuses, with the other half to come from the primary results.</p>
<p>Democrats, who chose to award all of their delegates through the caucuses and to ignore the primary totally, picked Barack Obama in both the caucuses and the primary.</p>
<p>But while Obama took 68 percent of the caucus vote, he was just squeaking by Tuesday with 50 percent of the vote to Hillary Clinton&#8217;s 47 percent.</p>
<p>Caucuses have long been criticized for not producing outcomes that are representative of the electorate&#8217;s true opinion. It&#8217;s easy for well-mobilized supporters of a candidate to pack the caucuses, which have very small turnout compared with a primary vote.</p>
<p>Anyone who doubts that need only recall televangelist Pat Robertson&#8217;s victory in the 1988 Washington Republican caucuses &#8212; his only victory in an otherwise ignored candidacy. Color Washington state red for embarrassment in that election.</p>
<p>The state&#8217;s voters approved an initiative establishing the primary, but the political parties, especially the Democrats, have stubbornly stuck to an antiquated system to select candidates. It&#8217;s a system that clearly doesn&#8217;t accurately reflect what the voters want.</p>
<p>One can only wonder how long it will be before the parties get the message and listen to the people.</p>
<p>Rick Larson: 582-1522; <a href="mailto:rlarson@tricityherald.com">rlarson@tricityherald.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: vjp</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118297</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vjp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then there&#039;s those putting pressure on the superdelegates to change their votes, particularly the superdelegates, not to mention the money spent courting them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then there&#8217;s those putting pressure on the superdelegates to change their votes, particularly the superdelegates, not to mention the money spent courting them.</p>
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		<title>By: ChenZhen</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ChenZhen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And apparently, &quot;pledged&quot; delegates &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8583.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;aren&#039;t really&lt;/a&gt; &lt;em&gt;pledged&lt;/em&gt; delegates.  I think all this gives too much room for corruption in the system.  Can you envision the Hillary machine working day and night to blackmail, bribe, or otherwise coerce enough delegates to steal this thing?   

Rotten.  Yep, quite literally in fact.  A rotten banana republic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And apparently, &#8220;pledged&#8221; delegates <a href="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8583.html" rel="nofollow">aren&#8217;t really</a> <em>pledged</em> delegates.  I think all this gives too much room for corruption in the system.  Can you envision the Hillary machine working day and night to blackmail, bribe, or otherwise coerce enough delegates to steal this thing?   </p>
<p>Rotten.  Yep, quite literally in fact.  A rotten banana republic.</p>
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		<title>By: idealistlefty</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[idealistlefty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lumen, do you think that could be attributed to the fact that the democratic candidates aren&#039;t substantially different on policy issues but that the GOPers were (major differences in fiscal and social issues)?  And Guiliani - well he was kinda a &quot;placeholder&quot; in the early polls.  I don&#039;t know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lumen, do you think that could be attributed to the fact that the democratic candidates aren&#8217;t substantially different on policy issues but that the GOPers were (major differences in fiscal and social issues)?  And Guiliani &#8211; well he was kinda a &#8220;placeholder&#8221; in the early polls.  I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Lumen</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lumen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 01:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It could be argued that the media dominated the early contests on the Democratic side, but the GOP voters definitely saw past early media coronations of &quot;frontrunner&quot; status.  Early media favorite Rudy Giuliani didn&#039;t get anywhere with actual voters, John McCain&#039;s campaign only took off after the media began ignoring him, and nobody (well, except for The Virginian Federalist) took much note of Mike Huckabee until very late last year when the media could no longer ignore that voters were attracted to him.  Now Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson are gone, Huckabee&#039;s still in the game, and McCain is leading the way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could be argued that the media dominated the early contests on the Democratic side, but the GOP voters definitely saw past early media coronations of &#8220;frontrunner&#8221; status.  Early media favorite Rudy Giuliani didn&#8217;t get anywhere with actual voters, John McCain&#8217;s campaign only took off after the media began ignoring him, and nobody (well, except for The Virginian Federalist) took much note of Mike Huckabee until very late last year when the media could no longer ignore that voters were attracted to him.  Now Romney, Giuliani, and Thompson are gone, Huckabee&#8217;s still in the game, and McCain is leading the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon E. Mouse</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118244</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon E. Mouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recommend we just have the state legislatures appoint the electors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend we just have the state legislatures appoint the electors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Fixing How We Pick A President</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118239</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Fixing How We Pick A President]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Vivian Paige     &#160; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vivian Paige     &nbsp; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vjp</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vjp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is no way that a national primary could be run. It would be worse that what we have now. But a series of regional primaries makes sense to me. I don&#039;t like the fact that the media dominated the early contests this year, making it a horse race early on, without giving real consideration to the other candidates. Why does it have to be two? Why couldn&#039;t it be more?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no way that a national primary could be run. It would be worse that what we have now. But a series of regional primaries makes sense to me. I don&#8217;t like the fact that the media dominated the early contests this year, making it a horse race early on, without giving real consideration to the other candidates. Why does it have to be two? Why couldn&#8217;t it be more?</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-2/#comment-118237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I made a similar recommendation to Dr. Sabato, which makes me feel like I&#039;m in good company.  A national primary actually would make it harder on the sort of candidate who wouldn&#039;t be picked by the hated &quot;establishment.&quot;  It takes a boatload of money to run a national primary, and without any early primary states to filter out who is precisely thought by a regular voter somewhere who is viable and who is not, the only one with any say about who is a viable candidate and who isn&#039;t is CNN.  That solves your problems how?

In my opinion, the best way to select a strong nominee is to have two strong contenders battle it out to stay viable and in the race through Super Tuesday and beyond.  Voters in states that have never mattered before to the nominating process have gotten to have a say this time around, and both candidates are getting stronger, improving their fundraising, meeting more voters, shoring up their weaknesses, and honing their message.  In short, the best way to make sure everyone gets to participate in selecting our nominee is to present voters with an actual honest to goodness choice between two viable alternatives.  It empowers our activists and strenghtens our party to help get more and more voters engaged and involved, and as a consequence, I think we all owe both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton a lot of gratitude for stepping forward and gearing up for this contest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I made a similar recommendation to Dr. Sabato, which makes me feel like I&#8217;m in good company.  A national primary actually would make it harder on the sort of candidate who wouldn&#8217;t be picked by the hated &#8220;establishment.&#8221;  It takes a boatload of money to run a national primary, and without any early primary states to filter out who is precisely thought by a regular voter somewhere who is viable and who is not, the only one with any say about who is a viable candidate and who isn&#8217;t is CNN.  That solves your problems how?</p>
<p>In my opinion, the best way to select a strong nominee is to have two strong contenders battle it out to stay viable and in the race through Super Tuesday and beyond.  Voters in states that have never mattered before to the nominating process have gotten to have a say this time around, and both candidates are getting stronger, improving their fundraising, meeting more voters, shoring up their weaknesses, and honing their message.  In short, the best way to make sure everyone gets to participate in selecting our nominee is to present voters with an actual honest to goodness choice between two viable alternatives.  It empowers our activists and strenghtens our party to help get more and more voters engaged and involved, and as a consequence, I think we all owe both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton a lot of gratitude for stepping forward and gearing up for this contest.</p>
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		<title>By: sleepless in virginia</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sleepless in virginia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[idealistlefty....I like your comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>idealistlefty&#8230;.I like your comment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: idealistlefty</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[idealistlefty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the discussion of national primaries and also, Vivian, your mention of regional primaries - I&#039;m going to go look through that post.  I have been wondering myself why not have a national primary for both parties as it gets rid of this &quot;momentum&quot; subjective analysis by the media, it also cuts down on the infighting that hurts our party in the long run.  There have got to be drawbacks to that though, like someone mentioned about the $.  But there will always be a $ argument.  People now who have good ideas can&#039;t compete b/c of the $ involved. I want to hear a better reason than that I guess.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the discussion of national primaries and also, Vivian, your mention of regional primaries &#8211; I&#8217;m going to go look through that post.  I have been wondering myself why not have a national primary for both parties as it gets rid of this &#8220;momentum&#8221; subjective analysis by the media, it also cuts down on the infighting that hurts our party in the long run.  There have got to be drawbacks to that though, like someone mentioned about the $.  But there will always be a $ argument.  People now who have good ideas can&#8217;t compete b/c of the $ involved. I want to hear a better reason than that I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: sleepless in virginia</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sleepless in virginia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry about the misspells:  prohibit (instead of prehibit)...
       and their (instead of there) labor bosses]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the misspells:  prohibit (instead of prehibit)&#8230;<br />
       and their (instead of there) labor bosses</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sleepless in virginia</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sleepless in virginia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting comments.  

Regarding caucuses, they are exclusionary because they don&#039;t allow absentee ballots and prehibit many types of folks from participating (shift workers, the homebound, the military overseas just to name a few).  So I&#039;d say that is undemocratic (democracy can&#039;t be exclusionary).  That given, a caucus can also be, as the authors say, intimidating and manipulative.  For example, look at the stories that were coming out of the Nevada caucuses where workers reported that there labor bosses were threatening them if they didn&#039;t vote a certain way.  

Regarding crossover voting, Randy should visit my county elections sometime if he doesn&#039;t think that crossover voters can cause mischief!

Over at MyDD there&#039;s a really good discussion, with some pretty shocking statistics, on caucuses versus primaries:  http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/9/22459/11370.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comments.  </p>
<p>Regarding caucuses, they are exclusionary because they don&#8217;t allow absentee ballots and prehibit many types of folks from participating (shift workers, the homebound, the military overseas just to name a few).  So I&#8217;d say that is undemocratic (democracy can&#8217;t be exclusionary).  That given, a caucus can also be, as the authors say, intimidating and manipulative.  For example, look at the stories that were coming out of the Nevada caucuses where workers reported that there labor bosses were threatening them if they didn&#8217;t vote a certain way.  </p>
<p>Regarding crossover voting, Randy should visit my county elections sometime if he doesn&#8217;t think that crossover voters can cause mischief!</p>
<p>Over at MyDD there&#8217;s a really good discussion, with some pretty shocking statistics, on caucuses versus primaries:  <a href="http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/9/22459/11370" rel="nofollow">http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/9/22459/11370</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: vjp</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vjp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pat - Larry Sabato recommends not a national primary, but a series of regional primaries. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=LJS2007101801&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pat &#8211; Larry Sabato recommends not a national primary, but a series of regional primaries. See <a href="http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=LJS2007101801" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: pat</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How do we get a better process?  The only way to keep the front-loaded primaries from making an early decision, leaving out millions of voters, is to have a national primary.  But to have a national primary means the candidates have to spend tons of money in 50 states all at one time and be in all 50 states all at one time.  Expecting them to do that means we really are not able to get down to the nuts and bolts of their view and, more importantly, we don&#039;t get to see them at their best.  They are human, after all.

And a national primary means by default the candidates would spend their financial and human resources in the states that provide the most return on the dollar, i.e., delegates, meaning the smaller states get ignored.  (Hmm, like the actual presidential election, come to thing of it.)

It is indeed a rotten process.  But how do we fix it?

All of that said, the Democratic primary process has been absolutely riveting this year.  If they were all like this, there probably wouldn&#039;t be a lot of objection to the process, but we are witnessing something breathtakingly unique, in my opinion.

I don&#039;t have a problem with open primaries at all.  I do have a problem with lock-step my-party-believes-this-so-I&#039;m-not-about-to-think-for-myself mentality.  I have voted for Democrats at times and Republicans at other times in my life and I don&#039;t expect that to change.

Unfortunately, the issue of uninformed voters making choices for, well, rather silly reasons is endemic to our society, in the primaries and in the general election.  If there were a way to fix THAT, I&#039;d be on board in a heartbeat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do we get a better process?  The only way to keep the front-loaded primaries from making an early decision, leaving out millions of voters, is to have a national primary.  But to have a national primary means the candidates have to spend tons of money in 50 states all at one time and be in all 50 states all at one time.  Expecting them to do that means we really are not able to get down to the nuts and bolts of their view and, more importantly, we don&#8217;t get to see them at their best.  They are human, after all.</p>
<p>And a national primary means by default the candidates would spend their financial and human resources in the states that provide the most return on the dollar, i.e., delegates, meaning the smaller states get ignored.  (Hmm, like the actual presidential election, come to thing of it.)</p>
<p>It is indeed a rotten process.  But how do we fix it?</p>
<p>All of that said, the Democratic primary process has been absolutely riveting this year.  If they were all like this, there probably wouldn&#8217;t be a lot of objection to the process, but we are witnessing something breathtakingly unique, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with open primaries at all.  I do have a problem with lock-step my-party-believes-this-so-I&#8217;m-not-about-to-think-for-myself mentality.  I have voted for Democrats at times and Republicans at other times in my life and I don&#8217;t expect that to change.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the issue of uninformed voters making choices for, well, rather silly reasons is endemic to our society, in the primaries and in the general election.  If there were a way to fix THAT, I&#8217;d be on board in a heartbeat.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Klear</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy Klear]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Caucuses can be highly undemocratic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I disagree. Caucuses are quite democratic. The lack of secret ballots opens voters up to confrontation with those who disagree, but it&#039;s no more undemocratic than it is to expect candidates to say what they think. [Insert snarky rejoinder here.] The time commitment also keeps people away, but it doesn&#039;t deny them a say in the process; it just hits their &quot;I can&#039;t be bothered&quot; threshold.
The real problem with caucuses is that they don&#039;t scale well. The coffee-klatsch format isn&#039;t an effective way to assemble millions of people, and as I said, the time commitment does keep people away. Primaries are a more effective way of getting large masses of people involved. That&#039;s not necessarily more &quot;democratic&quot;, but it is what it is.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The magnified importance of the early showdowns opens the door to abuse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And yet this year, when the process became extremely front-loaded, the early races were a draw and the later primaries mean more than they have in decades, on the Democratic side at least. Go figure.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Open primaries and caucuses let voters from the other party cause all sorts of mischief.
Primaries tend to favor highly committed voters from the extremes, forcing candidates to pander to them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

These would actually cancel each other out, if crossover voting from the other side were the problem it is purported to be. I rather think that base voters on both sides stick to their own races in order to defend the parties&#039; purity from uncommitted voters in the center, who are the people the extremists really want to keep out.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The primary system took the power from the party bosses and gave it to the media, most notably the national media.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I can&#039;t argue with that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Caucuses can be highly undemocratic.</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree. Caucuses are quite democratic. The lack of secret ballots opens voters up to confrontation with those who disagree, but it&#8217;s no more undemocratic than it is to expect candidates to say what they think. [Insert snarky rejoinder here.] The time commitment also keeps people away, but it doesn&#8217;t deny them a say in the process; it just hits their &#8220;I can&#8217;t be bothered&#8221; threshold.<br />
The real problem with caucuses is that they don&#8217;t scale well. The coffee-klatsch format isn&#8217;t an effective way to assemble millions of people, and as I said, the time commitment does keep people away. Primaries are a more effective way of getting large masses of people involved. That&#8217;s not necessarily more &#8220;democratic&#8221;, but it is what it is.</p>
<blockquote><p>The magnified importance of the early showdowns opens the door to abuse.</p></blockquote>
<p>And yet this year, when the process became extremely front-loaded, the early races were a draw and the later primaries mean more than they have in decades, on the Democratic side at least. Go figure.</p>
<blockquote><p>Open primaries and caucuses let voters from the other party cause all sorts of mischief.<br />
Primaries tend to favor highly committed voters from the extremes, forcing candidates to pander to them.</p></blockquote>
<p>These would actually cancel each other out, if crossover voting from the other side were the problem it is purported to be. I rather think that base voters on both sides stick to their own races in order to defend the parties&#8217; purity from uncommitted voters in the center, who are the people the extremists really want to keep out.</p>
<blockquote><p>The primary system took the power from the party bosses and gave it to the media, most notably the national media.</p></blockquote>
<p>I can&#8217;t argue with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Caucuses are indefensibly dumb.  Open primaries aren&#039;t far behind - though I seem to recall that open primaries are pretty popular &#039;round these parts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caucuses are indefensibly dumb.  Open primaries aren&#8217;t far behind &#8211; though I seem to recall that open primaries are pretty popular &#8217;round these parts.</p>
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		<title>By: eileen81</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eileen81]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Along with where they stand on the issues, I also consider electibility and how the candidate either helps or hinders the Democratic cause.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Along with where they stand on the issues, I also consider electibility and how the candidate either helps or hinders the Democratic cause.</p>
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		<title>By: vjp</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118209</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vjp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mouse - we aren&#039;t talking about the government here. It is about process.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mouse &#8211; we aren&#8217;t talking about the government here. It is about process.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon E. Mouse</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118206</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon E. Mouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118206</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, it&#039;s the worst possible form of government, except for all the others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it&#8217;s the worst possible form of government, except for all the others.</p>
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		<title>By: vjp</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vjp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, anon, and the authors do point that out ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, anon, and the authors do point that out <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the interest of fairness, I&#039;d like to point out that back-room fat cats stinking of bourbon and cigars managed to pick FDR, and several other good Presidents, too boot.  Back-room fat cats get such a bad name nowadays. ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interest of fairness, I&#8217;d like to point out that back-room fat cats stinking of bourbon and cigars managed to pick FDR, and several other good Presidents, too boot.  Back-room fat cats get such a bad name nowadays. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: JACK STILES</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JACK STILES]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hillary is getting what goes around comes around, clintons have done dirty tricks, from day one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hillary is getting what goes around comes around, clintons have done dirty tricks, from day one.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/02/19/a-rotten-way-to-pick-a-president/comment-page-1/#comment-118194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.vivianpaige.com/?p=3029#comment-118194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I personally chose Obama based totally on sex appeal and what he orders for breakfast...was that wrong?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally chose Obama based totally on sex appeal and what he orders for breakfast&#8230;was that wrong?</p>
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