For instance, just reading a little further into the “God damn” controversy shows that Wright wasn’t in any way preaching violence…he was preaching against it:

“The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing ‘God Bless America.’ No, no, no, God damn America, that’s in the Bible for killing innocent people,” he said in a 2003 sermon. “God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme.”

That sounds like religion to me — that damnation is called for in the bible for killing innocents, treating people as less than human and for acting like God. It may not be what *I* believe, but it’s really just not controversial in content — it is of course, controversial in delivery. However, when Falwell et al. went after the same topic they went after individuals (not our country’s policies) — they named gays, abortionists, pagans ( I can’t remember them all, I’m sure feminists were in there too).

While Wright speaks in a fiery manner, he doesn’t condone or preach violence. He speaks out angrily against injustice.

On the point of whether or not Obama heard hateful things (or overheated rhetoric) — well, it looks like after combing through as many sermons as they could find, this is what they’ve got. And he was at that church how long? Even if we just go by the 20 years, that’s what? 900 sermons?

Go ahead and google the text of his Audacity to Hope sermon, too. Just for some context about what was happening in his pulpit.

(If it matters, I’m white and not at all involved in organized religion.)

When the republicans was selling George Bush as a conservative christian all I heard here in the south was “God was bringing damnation and judgement on America when 9/11 happened, because of the all the innocent blood being shed in the abortion clinics. But when Jeremiah Wright say God is damning America for it’s unjust treatment of the poor and blacks it’s offensive. PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE give me a break.

I tired of media telling me what I should “THINK”.

“JESUS TEACHES HIM TO LOVE HIS ENEMIES”, is an important character trait.

MAYBE NOT WHEN YOU ARE DOING A HIGH-TECH LYNCHING!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ

Jeremiah Wright’s God Damn America in context
Already 40,000 people have watched this video

BEGIN QUOTE
“If I judged everyone by those they were aquainted with and their pastors, relatives or friends, I probably wouldn’t have very many friends or relatives left myself.

Besides I always try to remember when I point fingers at someone else there are always three pointing right back at me!!

All 10 of us still plan to vote for Obama!” – BillyJean.
END QUOTE

I’m afraid if that is the general attitude out there, we are all in for a rough ride.
Ken Yaecker.

Lincoln then got the nomination on the THIRD ballot…I guess they “didn’t know enough” about him either!

I have to disagree with your assertion that Obama lied about hearing Wright’s comments, and that words from his speech prove this.

If you read/listen carefully, you can tell that Obama was very selective in the language he used when answering questions about Wright, especially in the speech. He said he was not in attendance and did not hear the tirade which caused the controversy. That has since been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But in his speech, which you have quoted above, he discusses other criticism which he did hear and his carefully chosen language is really quite impressive:

“Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in the church? Yes.”

As you can see, he creates a difference between the comments that caused the uproar–which he did not hear–and comments “that could be considered controversial.” There is no way that Wright’s comments could be merely “considered controversial,” so he separates words he heard from words that have caused the uproar.

I believe this difference, and this separation between comments he heard and the comments that created the controversy are very important, and I believe it was an expert use of language in the speech to create this separation and difference.

The argument can be made that perhaps Obama heard something on par with those statements, but it seems to be hard to prove, and in this instance, I don’t think Obama can be called a liar.

The Catholic church has bungled their handling of these victims and I disagree with that wholeheartedly but there is much good in our church.
I invite you to go to a local Catholic church and see for youself.
Pax Christ.

Keep putting it out there. Help us decide.

Obama admitted in his speech that he personally heard some of Wright’s fiery rhetoric. “Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in the church? Yes.”

Let me be crystal clear: I believe Obama lied about not hearing his pastor say this stuff. Whether his pastor was right or wrong is not the point. Had he said “I was there, I heard him say this stuff, I didn’t agree with it and told him so at the time” or something like that, his story would have been plausible. But to attend a church for 20 years and say that he didn’t hear it is just BS.

All of the excuses and rationalizations can’t change the fact that Obama’s initial statements on this issue were not credible.

If the church I belonged to molested & raped little children like say the …Catholic Church I would leave. Last time I checked speaking ones mind is not a criminal act. Raping little children is…

why is assumed that if one doesn’t support Obama..they do not support real change?

The way you (and others) treat Obama on this issue is the exact equivalent of Whitewater to the Clintons, swiftboats to John Kerry, Willie Horton to Dukakis, the 2000 slime against McCain, the way they treated Max Cleland, . . . the list is endless. If you are not part of the Washington machine against real change in America, and I truly hope you are not, I hope you wake up soon.

This from a white male independent — if that makes any difference.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/

Obama’s campaign is going to have to shore up some more positive and credible resources to overcome this crippling blow to his image.

If this church is so great, why is Obama lying about attending and hearing certain sermons? Simple question.

Like I said, the churches which are mainstream, integrated and welcoming of all are usually not the ones with a raving lunatic for a pastor-regardless of denomination. I pick on the Methodists for obvious reasons because the church and Hillary Clinton who is an adherent, has a muddled policy with regard to gays and lesbians and I resent that.

To be fair to her, she has changed her position on the Defense of Marriage Act but the fact that the discrimination signed into law by her husband cannot be changed at this time is really very galling .

There were churches in the 70’s that didn’t exclude people, for whatever reason. People look for a church that expresses their feelings and beliefs and I chose one that wasn’t segrated. They were available here in Norfolk, if you chose to attend one, as I am sure there were in Chicago at that time, if one chose to attend it.

By the way, it was a Methodist Church.

The equation of Obama and George Wallace, a former segregationist and white supremacist, is a comparison which is both disingenuous and beneath contempt. Shame on you!

This is my last post, hon. I officially give up. If you want to reduce a 36 year ministry to a three minute intemperate rant about American hypocrisy on race-fine. If you what to believe Sean Hannity and Fox News over Barack Obama, that’s fine too. It is still a free country. But the truth is that you cannot answer my questions because you know and can’t admit the answers and neither can white America.

I love you anyway because you reached out to me two years ago and told me to continue blogging. I will never forget that or turn my back on you. It doesn’t matter to me anymore who you believe should be president. We disagree and it will never change. I’m O.K. with that and I’m O.K. with you.

Love, Peace and Hairgrease,

Skeptical Brotha

Are you denying that Obama claims both to have attended this church and to never have heard Wright make comments like God damn America?

Obama can go to church where ever he wants. But lying about doing so tells me a whole lot about his character.

So there is something wrong with belonging to an integrated, afrocentric, gay-friendly, progressive church that has been a positive force in the community since its founding? Really? Enlighten me. To be honest with you, unless it was a Unitarian Chuch or an MCC, I have never read, seen, or heard about a single mainstream African American Church that specifically had a life affirming ministry for gays and lesbians, not to mention one that had one before the 90’s.

But on the strength of misinformation planted by Fox News, Sean Hannity, and somebody’s sophisticated opposition research, I am supposed to castigate the bi-racial Barack Obama, his family of many colors, his 8,000 member church that neither of us has never stepped foot in and his Pastor as being “hateful.”

I can’t do that, hon. Neither should you.

I defy you to name one gay-friendly, mainstream protestant African American congregation you’ve ever stepped foot in where you’ve experienced hatred.

You can’t because there is no such thing.

And it is no leap to say Obama is lying – because he is. Your question about gays is more irrelevant to the topic at hand – that’s, whether Obama is lying – than my comment about my father. Obama is not being attacked for belonging to that church. He is being attacked for lying about it.

Now that the vetting process has started folks are discovering they may have bought a pig in a poke. And that stench you’re smelling? It’s not from the Hillary campaign.

Besides, you seem to think that my indignation somehow comes from the Hillary campaign. It does not. I speak only for myself.

You understand perfectly well the context of that statement. It was a statement of condemning American hypocrisy. Whether your father, a man who was a full generation older than Wright, would have said what Wright did is irrelevant. To step up and say that Obama is “lying” is a big leap. You still haven’t answered my question about any black minister that openly accepted gays and lesbians as members of his church in the 70’s, nor have you acknowledged Wright’s AIDS ministry and ministry for gay and lesbian singles. Too many black pastors are stuck in the 19th century, Wright isn’t and Obama is being attacked for being a member of Afrocentric, integrated, and gay-friendly church. It’s amazing. In contrast, the nonsensical and distorted contortions Hillary Clinton’s Methodist Church has gone to deny gay clergy and gay parishioners the blessings of the church remains unremarked upon.

Whether Wright is a good man is not the issue. I can’t imagine my father saying God damn America.

Regardless – that’s not my point. My point is simple: Obama is either lying about how often he went to church or lying about not having heard Wright say similar things. Either way, he’s lying. And that speaks to his character.

Can you name one black pastor in Norfolk that openly welcomed gays and lesbians into the church in the 70’s. Anybody who really believes that a “black racist” has a logical reason for joining a white denomination, the United Church of Christ, to be a black separatist is either crazy or stupid or both. It is a lie. Wright has said nothing I haven’t heard before or will hear again in a black church. This is what Al Gore calls, “a convenient truth.” Who benefits.

As I tried to say above, Wright is an disciplined non-conformist when it comes to inclusion and openness. He practices what he preaches and what the United Church of Christ teaches.

While you’re pondering that, what is Hillary’s Methodist Church’s position regarding gay clergy and gay unions and who should she be denouncing?

Finally, thanks for your friendship and encouragement. They are greatly appreciated.

Or are you going to get the other crazy uncle (Ron Paul) to run and you might manage to get 2.5% of the vote?