While I understand your feelings — my own father was in Vietnam, and we now know that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was manufactured by Johnson — the fact is that we CANNOT know all of the reasons we went to war. That information was, and will remain, classified. That is why we have Representatives and Senators — to review that classified information before sending our troops, sailors, and Marines into battle.

The person you should be pissed off with is Sen. Clinton, who voted to send them into battle without bothering to go read that classified information. That laziness and disregard for our soldiers reeks of her husband’s loathing of the military.

We cannot read that classified information. We must trust our elected representatives to do so and vote appropriately. That she could not be bothered to do so is simple dereliction of duty.

BTW, I may have no “skin in the game” now (I tried, but failed the physical), but I am encouraging my sons to join the military.

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for losing my temper on the earlier thread that was hijacked by Iraq. The entire issue of Iraq, the run up to it and subsequent debacle of the occupation is very very personal. I love my kids, I am proud of my Marines service. I knew both intellectually, as well as deep down in “my gut”, that this was a wrongheaded decision and my child was needlessly being put into harms way. Thank God that no physical or emotional harm came his way.

I saw the Phil Donahue documentary last night, “Body of War” that chronicles the life of an Iraq war vet paralyzes from the chest down from a round taken in the back. As a parent, knowing this could have happened to your child for something you passionately believe and know was for a totally uneasy and optional war, you react and react strongly. Committing our soldiers, sailors and Marines to possible death and critical injury is the most solemn duty of our elected representatives. For me, it was done callously with the backdrop of an approaching election and for all the wrong reasons. I will always know that bush and the neocon cabal that hijacked US foreign policy used fear and distortions (or lies) to start this war, and many families will be forever have to bear the ultimate cost of this strategic blunder and their boneheaded decision.

Hence, I have very little patience (It shows, huh) for those who defend this, especially it they have no “skin in the game”.

“If I am right, we are doomed. If I am wrong, we can breath a sigh of relief.”

I agree whole-hearedly!

I don’t think Obama does carry them while MI and to a lesser degree PA might be in jeopardy to McCain. Not sure if this expanded playing field BO claims can overcome that.

If I am right, we are doomed. If I am wrong, we can breath a sigh of relief.

For that matter, no woman has EVER won the White House. No African-American has EVER won the White House. So should we assume that it will NEVER happen?

Also, remember Bill Clinton lost 4 of the last 6 primaries in ‘92, and STILL won the White House.

Just simply having Obama (AA) and HRC (female) in such a high-profile, high-stakes primary battle, throw out the rule book. You will have NOTHING to compare to this fall’s campaign.

P.S. Barack has gained

She doesn’t.

At a party I was at recently, a handful of first generation Americans were offering some rather surprising (and downright insulting) observations about black Americans, whom they regarded as lazy and unmotivated. Their views were informed by their parents, all of whom had come to this country and found varying degrees of success. Consequently, they’ve completely bought into the idea that America is a land of opportunity and thought it was “disgusting” how complacent black Americans are.

Without going into too much detail, I drew upon some of the exchanges you and I have had, Vivian, and explained how these immigrants’ children had strong role models who came to this country entirely on the premise that they could have a better life here if they worked hard, whereas most black Americans’ ancestors came here in chains and survived generations under slavery, Jim Crow laws, and Segregation to teach them that no matter what they did, they would never be allowed to succeed in America, so they didn’t have quite the same sort of role model for hard work equaling success.

Obama may not have a “black agenda,” but I think it would be a positive step if young black Americans had a mainstream black role model for public success–unequivocated success, not the self-loathing Clarence Thomases of the world or the Jesse Jacksons who spend more time drawing attention to the victimization of black America than holding up its successes for emulation. Although I definitely understand Vivian’s point and think Hillary Clinton has done a lot of reaching out to black Americans, she cannot be the sort or role model that Obama can be. And even those Americans new to this country realize that those people really could use a new role model.

That’s not the only reason to elect him, in fact it’s a pretty bad reason to elect him. Obama needs to be the president of all Americans, not just the black Americans, and I hope he’ll take heed of the work he needs to do among white working-class voters.

We vote our interest, plain and simple.

So how come you didn’t answer my question about what Obama’s agenda for the black community? Or the fact that he hasn’t spent any money in the black community? How in the heck is that voting “our” interests?

And unlike you, Chaz, I never claimed to be a spokesperson for the “mythical” black community.

Here’s what I know: if 90% of the black people support Obama and 90% of the white people support McCain, guess who wins?

At the end of the day, I’ve consistently said it’s about Democrats winning in November. That’s what this post was about – No Democrat since 1916 has won the White House without winning WV. It’s a fact.

Obama preaches unity while his supporters preach hate. And y’all wonder why so many of Hillary’s supporters say they won’t support BO in the fall.

Second, you’re mad about the affect that Rev. Wright has had, that’s not Hillary Clinton’s fault. The fact that certain people had a reaction to this is all them. The fact that there are not-well-informed, ignorant people in America is not something that Hillary Clinton had anything to do with.

Also, last I checked, as free individual, you have a choice about which church you attend. Your choices speak to the person you are. It’s not defamation to associate me or anyone else with the church we attend and the clergy who provide us spiritual guidance.

Last, way to go on promoting party unity. If Obama is the post-partisan candidate and he is above the politics of the past 200+ years of American history, it is odd that you as his supporter would not be adopting that ethos too. I’d advise you not to attack Clinton supporters. If you have a problem with Hillary Clinton, feel free to write her directly.

On the other hand, Hillary — not an associate — lied multiple times about Bosnia snipers and the woman with the sick child. Yet her character was not brought into question by Obama.

Let me put it to you another way, Anon. Take a look at this video. In it you’ll find the man credited with delivering Pennsylvania to Hillary. And by the way, a man mentioned in the past as a viable presidential and vice presidential candidate.

He was by her side during the last debate when she brought up Farrakhan, another controversial and vilified person that scares white people. Someone you can exploit to play to fears rooted in the racial divide. (I take note you referenced Wright in your post, so obviously this tactic worked with you)

Now, before you watch this video, remember, he may run for president one day. Will this video hurt him? Will people attempting to impugn his character use this video?

Here’s another (rhetorical) question: Why didn’t the Obama people use this video to counter Hillary bringing up Farrakhan?

The bottom line is, people should be judged on their words, actions, policies, record, etc, — not on those that are in their sphere of influence!

The Rev. Wright issue was bogus from the start — the product of a desperate attempt to defame a man who has lived a clean life. If you can’t find anything on him, find someone near him, anyone, as long as you assassinate his character. This is everything that is wrong with our politics and country now, and I hope Obama does not fall prey to it, even if he loses the election. Now here’s the video:

Character matters, Chaz. If Clinton’s long-time pastor and mentor were a race-bating white hate-monger, you’d say she was unfit to be President based on that association.

Black folk are not sheep that vote blindly, even along color lines (see results of Rendell-Lynn Swann Pa Gov. race). We vote our interest, plain and simple.

Hillary has the talent and experience to have defeated Obama on the strength of her own merits. She did not have to resort to character assassination and race-baiting.

There is a clear line of demarcation we can all use to discern when ANY candidate crosses the line between contrasting their attributes with those of their opponents. But when politicians begin to bring into question the character of their opponent, they have crossed the line. Hillary did that during the last debate when SHE brought up Farrakhan. She gave credence to the William Ayers fiasco. She threw gasoline on the Rev. Wright issue.

She has profoundly hurt this man in the minds of millions of Americans. He may not ever recover from this character assassination. There’s no criticism he has leveled at her during this campaign that impugns her character. And he’s had opportunities to take the bait, ie, Bosnia lie (or ‘misspeak’), the lie about the woman and her sick child that the hospital repudiated, where the $109 million came from. He’s taken the high road.

She lost me (and I dare say, millions of other loyal black Democrats) that night. And to add insult to injury, she race-baits in a desperate attempt to win a nomination she can’t win. The woman is through when it comes to African-American voters. Of all people, the Clintons have a feel for the nuances of black culture. THEY KNOW BETTER. How disappointing this is.

Now, you can dismiss this as partisan rhetoric if you are so inclined. I’m being honest when I assert these things. Vivian, you got your work cut out for you. You can self-justify if you want, the Clintons have ruined their legacy with the black political collective in our country. The Clintons have shown their true colors.

One more thing. I may not be “the spokesperson for the black community,” my sister, but clearly I am rooted in the 90+ percent of African-Americans — people from all educational, economic strata and regions — that support Barack Obama.

That puts YOU in the less than 10 percenters. Now, who made you the spokesperson for the black community?

RCP polling average;

Clinton 47.7 McBush 42.3 with the last 2 polls Clinton +10 and +11
Obama 42.3 McBush 45.7 with no poll showing Obama in the lead.

Food for thought….

Hillary forces are uncivil, repugnant and vile.

Well, Ms. Brazile, at least that is a new line. Before we were just uneducated racists and bitter white trash henchmen. I think we are making progress with Obama supporters!

Amazing.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2008/by_county/MS_Page_0513.html?SITE=MSJADELN&SECTION=POLITICS

All 3 are D pick-ups and these last 2 (LA and now MS) were very red districts in very red to pretty red deep south states.

Is there a tsunami getting ready to roll over the gop this fall or what? Wow!

Like how BO has no agenda for the black community (Hillary does). How BO hasn’t spent any money in the black media (Hillary has). Who blew off the “State of the Black Union” event? (Hint – it wasn’t Hillary.)

I ponied up some more dinero for our girl tonight. I hope thousands join me.

One thing I haven’t done on this blog – I have not attacked Obama. No matter how tempted I’ve been, I haven’t done it. And to be perfectly honest, I’d love to know who died and left you the spokesperson for the black community.

You don’t speak for me. Please take your race-baiting BS elsewhere.

Hillary could not win a dog catcher seat in the black community!

How ANY person of African descent could support her, given her naked lowest-common-denominator appeal to the racial divide, is beyond me. I mean, support whomever you please but recognize that at a certain point one must speak out against what is clearly wrong.

What is truly tragic is that the legacy the Clintons had built amongst their most consistent and ardent supporters — blacks — is destroyed. She’ll never recapture the African-American vote again. Of course, she may not care since she has opted to work out of Karl Rove’s playbook.

There’s a lesson black folks should learn from the seeing the real Clintons — the same Clintons that spearheaded the Rev. Wright smear campaign and brought Farrakhan into the last debate: Democrats are no different than Republicans in many respects. Race trumps everything, unfortunately!