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	<title>Comments on: Newspapers: &#8220;Woe is me&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Newspapers echoing the net? &#171; VIVIAN J. PAIGE &#124; All Politics is Local</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-142904</link>
		<dc:creator>Newspapers echoing the net? &#171; VIVIAN J. PAIGE &#124; All Politics is Local</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-142904</guid>
		<description>[...] editorials and stories  However, letter writer Burton St. John III said something pretty close to what I said earlier: newspapers need to concentrate on local stuff. Truth be told, what other source of local news is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] editorials and stories  However, letter writer Burton St. John III said something pretty close to what I said earlier: newspapers need to concentrate on local stuff. Truth be told, what other source of local news is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: vjp</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-135032</link>
		<dc:creator>vjp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-135032</guid>
		<description>FYI - there are some others who have weighed in on this topic whose opinions you might find interesting. Check out John Sarvay at &lt;a href=&quot;http://floricane.typepad.com/buttermilk/2008/07/the-virginian-p.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Buttermilk &amp; Molasses&lt;/a&gt; and Dave Hendrickson at &lt;a href=&quot;http://hrblogs.typepad.com/the_shad_plank/2008/07/the-topic-of-th.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Shad Plank&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI &#8211; there are some others who have weighed in on this topic whose opinions you might find interesting. Check out John Sarvay at <a href="http://floricane.typepad.com/buttermilk/2008/07/the-virginian-p.html" rel="nofollow">Buttermilk &amp; Molasses</a> and Dave Hendrickson at <a href="http://hrblogs.typepad.com/the_shad_plank/2008/07/the-topic-of-th.html" rel="nofollow">The Shad Plank</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: shoreacres</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134876</link>
		<dc:creator>shoreacres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134876</guid>
		<description>I find it beautifully ironic that I recently advised bloggers including research or reporting in their writing to follow the practices of a good journalist:  to fact check, and check again, to use multiple sources whenever possible, to seek out primary documents rather than secondary and to cite accurately and in a consistent style - WITH attribution.

Years ago, I sought my facts in the newspaper.  I depended on them, and trusted their integrity and journalistic pride.  Today, I use the internet to check what I find in the newspaper.  There are good journalists, accurate reporters and interesting columnists.  But the emergence of &quot;info-tainment&quot; has touched the newspapers as well as broadcast media, and the results are not good.  

I try to hold myself to the highest standards possible when I put words to page.  More and more often, I find the standards I cherish being met on the internet rather than in my local newspapers.  Sometimes I wish it weren&#039;t so - I do love my Sunday paper and coffee - but more and more often people are indulging themselves in  Sunday coffee-and-computer to find the variety and quality of news they seek.

As for Mr. Luzzatto&#039;s specific comments regarding bloggers, I&#039;d be more than happy to have him sit with me at 2 a.m. as I struggle to ensure that my writing is &quot;accurate, full and thoughtful&quot;.  Since writers do need editors, I must serve that function as well as being my own research staff, art department and design staff.  Unpaid I may be, but pride in my work never has been dependent on a paycheck.

I confess I was most taken by this statement by Mr. Luzzatto:  &quot;But you should see how many people spend their day keeping me from looking like a fool - editors, colleagues, people who design this page, or take my picture. Without them, I&#039;m just a barely literate guy with half-formed ideas.&quot;

Indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it beautifully ironic that I recently advised bloggers including research or reporting in their writing to follow the practices of a good journalist:  to fact check, and check again, to use multiple sources whenever possible, to seek out primary documents rather than secondary and to cite accurately and in a consistent style &#8211; WITH attribution.</p>
<p>Years ago, I sought my facts in the newspaper.  I depended on them, and trusted their integrity and journalistic pride.  Today, I use the internet to check what I find in the newspaper.  There are good journalists, accurate reporters and interesting columnists.  But the emergence of &#8220;info-tainment&#8221; has touched the newspapers as well as broadcast media, and the results are not good.  </p>
<p>I try to hold myself to the highest standards possible when I put words to page.  More and more often, I find the standards I cherish being met on the internet rather than in my local newspapers.  Sometimes I wish it weren&#8217;t so &#8211; I do love my Sunday paper and coffee &#8211; but more and more often people are indulging themselves in  Sunday coffee-and-computer to find the variety and quality of news they seek.</p>
<p>As for Mr. Luzzatto&#8217;s specific comments regarding bloggers, I&#8217;d be more than happy to have him sit with me at 2 a.m. as I struggle to ensure that my writing is &#8220;accurate, full and thoughtful&#8221;.  Since writers do need editors, I must serve that function as well as being my own research staff, art department and design staff.  Unpaid I may be, but pride in my work never has been dependent on a paycheck.</p>
<p>I confess I was most taken by this statement by Mr. Luzzatto:  &#8220;But you should see how many people spend their day keeping me from looking like a fool &#8211; editors, colleagues, people who design this page, or take my picture. Without them, I&#8217;m just a barely literate guy with half-formed ideas.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Tabor</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134852</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Tabor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134852</guid>
		<description>Mr. Luzzatto is in a tight spot. I guess a certain amount of thrashing about is to be expected. I subscribe to the Pilot, but except for the funny papers, I read the online version, my wife reads the ads. His industry is undergoing a lot of change and some fear and resentment are to be expected. 

But he should not take it out on bloggers. On the contrary, the blogs should be regarded as the conscience of the major media. A conscience is a valuable thing. 

For example, in the weeks after the death of Det. Jarrod Shivers and the arrest of Ryan Frederick for first degree murder, the Pilot&#039;s reporting and TV coverage were little more than unquestioned repetition of the police department&#039;s releases. It was`only after discrepancies between the statements and the search warrant and inventories were reported by Libertarian blogs, including Infrequently Asked Questions, The Agitator, and Tidewater Liberty, that the Pilot and WTKR began looking at the case with the proper skepticism. 

And lets not forget that the fraudulent documents used by CBS to question George Bush&#039;s Air Guard service were first spotted by bloggers with a geeky interest in fonts and typewriters.  

One thing the major news media cannot afford is to be proven wrong on major news items after the fact. Having an army of volunteer fact checkers and balancing commentary on hand to keep them honest is something the Pilot should appreciate and embrace. Everyone makes errors, and everyone can be taken in some of the time. When errors are made, finding them and correcting them early protects credibility, without which, the traditional media are doomed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Luzzatto is in a tight spot. I guess a certain amount of thrashing about is to be expected. I subscribe to the Pilot, but except for the funny papers, I read the online version, my wife reads the ads. His industry is undergoing a lot of change and some fear and resentment are to be expected. </p>
<p>But he should not take it out on bloggers. On the contrary, the blogs should be regarded as the conscience of the major media. A conscience is a valuable thing. </p>
<p>For example, in the weeks after the death of Det. Jarrod Shivers and the arrest of Ryan Frederick for first degree murder, the Pilot&#8217;s reporting and TV coverage were little more than unquestioned repetition of the police department&#8217;s releases. It was`only after discrepancies between the statements and the search warrant and inventories were reported by Libertarian blogs, including Infrequently Asked Questions, The Agitator, and Tidewater Liberty, that the Pilot and WTKR began looking at the case with the proper skepticism. </p>
<p>And lets not forget that the fraudulent documents used by CBS to question George Bush&#8217;s Air Guard service were first spotted by bloggers with a geeky interest in fonts and typewriters.  </p>
<p>One thing the major news media cannot afford is to be proven wrong on major news items after the fact. Having an army of volunteer fact checkers and balancing commentary on hand to keep them honest is something the Pilot should appreciate and embrace. Everyone makes errors, and everyone can be taken in some of the time. When errors are made, finding them and correcting them early protects credibility, without which, the traditional media are doomed.</p>
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		<title>By: The Fan District Hub &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogger tops Virginian-Pilot editorial writer</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134804</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fan District Hub &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogger tops Virginian-Pilot editorial writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 01:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134804</guid>
		<description>[...] here to read Vivian&#8217;s post on the state of the news-gathering business [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] here to read Vivian&#8217;s post on the state of the news-gathering business [...]</p>
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		<title>By: spotter</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134795</link>
		<dc:creator>spotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 22:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134795</guid>
		<description>I love newspapers, and I would love to see the Virginian-Pilot succeed.  What&#039;s going against them, however, are several irreversible trends.

First, newspapers show their bias every day.  We&#039;re a decade post-Murdoch, and it&#039;s way too late to be crying about the supposed objectivity of newspapers.   Bloggers may be biased, but their biases are clear and upfront, unlike the insidious bias of newspaper reporters and editors.  Bloggers are just balancing out media bias, and offering a much-needed chance to keep the media honest.

Second, timeliness.  I read a story on Yahoo News when I check my e-mail, and a day or two later it&#039;s printed word for word in the Virginian-Pilot.  Same for editorial columns, plus the obvious lack of anything but conservative voices.  And not even responsible, thinking conservatives, just mindless hacks like Thomas Sowell and Cal Thomas.  This is the newspaper, after all, whose editor said something to the effect of &quot;We don&#039;t need a liberal columnist.  We have Maureen Dowd.&quot;  (Hillary fans, on MoDo, you and I agree.)

Third, regardless of content, the medium of communication has just changed, period.  People aren&#039;t going to spend the time looking at the newspaper when they can get the same thing, and more, on t.v. or the internet.  You could have the best newspaper in the world (and despite the best efforts of its staff, the VP is not the best paper in the world), and it would be affected by this change.

Fourth, and this is where MY bias comes in, how about the Virginian-Pilot/Bob Molinaro/Roger Chesley give up the War on Soccer?  For example, thousands and thousands of kids are in leagues around the area.  About 10,000 participants and even more onlookers participated the Sand Soccer tournament in Virginia Beach last month.  One of the hottest issues is the lack of adequate space for the many area teams to practice.  Meanwhile, the Pilot has a sports writer and an editorialist who never miss a chance to tell us how much they hate soccer.  We got it, guys.  WE DON&#039;T CARE whether you like soccer.  We do, and we expect our newspaper to cover it fully and fairly.  Do you have any idea how silly you sound?

It would be interesting to compare how many column inches the Pilot has devoted to deploring the sport of soccer as opposed to, for example, street gangs.  (Not that I am willing to drive my son to street gang practice; if that&#039;s the recreational outlet of his choice, he&#039;ll have to arrange his own transportation.) 

Being old school, my husband and I usually send an e-mail or letter to the editor when this comes up to try to persuade the Pilot to give up its quixotic War on Soccer.  I gotta tell you, the younger people coming up now are simply not going to bother.  IF they read this junk, they will laugh, put it down, and not read it again.

Yes, that&#039;s a lot of soccer discussion, but I think it&#039;s a pretty good example of the Pilot totally missing the boat on an important local activity, and even showing its bias by acting against it to the extent it has the power to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love newspapers, and I would love to see the Virginian-Pilot succeed.  What&#8217;s going against them, however, are several irreversible trends.</p>
<p>First, newspapers show their bias every day.  We&#8217;re a decade post-Murdoch, and it&#8217;s way too late to be crying about the supposed objectivity of newspapers.   Bloggers may be biased, but their biases are clear and upfront, unlike the insidious bias of newspaper reporters and editors.  Bloggers are just balancing out media bias, and offering a much-needed chance to keep the media honest.</p>
<p>Second, timeliness.  I read a story on Yahoo News when I check my e-mail, and a day or two later it&#8217;s printed word for word in the Virginian-Pilot.  Same for editorial columns, plus the obvious lack of anything but conservative voices.  And not even responsible, thinking conservatives, just mindless hacks like Thomas Sowell and Cal Thomas.  This is the newspaper, after all, whose editor said something to the effect of &#8220;We don&#8217;t need a liberal columnist.  We have Maureen Dowd.&#8221;  (Hillary fans, on MoDo, you and I agree.)</p>
<p>Third, regardless of content, the medium of communication has just changed, period.  People aren&#8217;t going to spend the time looking at the newspaper when they can get the same thing, and more, on t.v. or the internet.  You could have the best newspaper in the world (and despite the best efforts of its staff, the VP is not the best paper in the world), and it would be affected by this change.</p>
<p>Fourth, and this is where MY bias comes in, how about the Virginian-Pilot/Bob Molinaro/Roger Chesley give up the War on Soccer?  For example, thousands and thousands of kids are in leagues around the area.  About 10,000 participants and even more onlookers participated the Sand Soccer tournament in Virginia Beach last month.  One of the hottest issues is the lack of adequate space for the many area teams to practice.  Meanwhile, the Pilot has a sports writer and an editorialist who never miss a chance to tell us how much they hate soccer.  We got it, guys.  WE DON&#8217;T CARE whether you like soccer.  We do, and we expect our newspaper to cover it fully and fairly.  Do you have any idea how silly you sound?</p>
<p>It would be interesting to compare how many column inches the Pilot has devoted to deploring the sport of soccer as opposed to, for example, street gangs.  (Not that I am willing to drive my son to street gang practice; if that&#8217;s the recreational outlet of his choice, he&#8217;ll have to arrange his own transportation.) </p>
<p>Being old school, my husband and I usually send an e-mail or letter to the editor when this comes up to try to persuade the Pilot to give up its quixotic War on Soccer.  I gotta tell you, the younger people coming up now are simply not going to bother.  IF they read this junk, they will laugh, put it down, and not read it again.</p>
<p>Yes, that&#8217;s a lot of soccer discussion, but I think it&#8217;s a pretty good example of the Pilot totally missing the boat on an important local activity, and even showing its bias by acting against it to the extent it has the power to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: J&#8217;s Notes &#187; Oh Such Woe At The Virginian Pilot</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134769</link>
		<dc:creator>J&#8217;s Notes &#187; Oh Such Woe At The Virginian Pilot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134769</guid>
		<description>[...] Vivian Paige takes The Virginian Pilot to task for excusing their long march into irrelevance and taking a few swipes at the blogs while they&#8217;re at it.   July 8th, 2008 at 12:50 pm &#124; Tags: asides, media [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vivian Paige takes The Virginian Pilot to task for excusing their long march into irrelevance and taking a few swipes at the blogs while they&#8217;re at it.   July 8th, 2008 at 12:50 pm | Tags: asides, media [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anon E. Mouse</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134768</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon E. Mouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134768</guid>
		<description>When I&#039;m visiting the peeps down there, I&#039;ll pick up the Sunday Pilot, and half the opinion pieces, although sindicated, were in the WaPo the previous Sunday.  It&#039;s like deja vu all over again.

Still, it&#039;s good to read the local stuff now and again, and to check the obits to see if see if I&#039;m dead yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I&#8217;m visiting the peeps down there, I&#8217;ll pick up the Sunday Pilot, and half the opinion pieces, although sindicated, were in the WaPo the previous Sunday.  It&#8217;s like deja vu all over again.</p>
<p>Still, it&#8217;s good to read the local stuff now and again, and to check the obits to see if see if I&#8217;m dead yet.</p>
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		<title>By: LittleDavid</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134762</link>
		<dc:creator>LittleDavid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134762</guid>
		<description>I used to subscibe to the Pilot (and like Vivian at one time I preferred the Ledger Star), however a couple year&#039;s back I cancelled by subscription.  For me it was a money saving thing.  Since I was the only member of my household that read the Pilot, and something like 90% of my time was spent on the road where I might purchase USA Today to get my news, my wife argued, and I had to agree, that it didn&#039;t make sense to keep paying for it.  The overwhelming majority of the papers delivered were never read at all.

If Il spent most of my time at home instead of on the road, I would probably still subscribe for local news coverage.

Now, the complaints about bloggers.  Let me offer this rebuttal.  Even if most bloggers only piggy-back on the work of journalists, it offers additional value to society.  It offers the blogger the opportunity to write a &quot;letter to the editor&quot; without having to face the judgement of the editor that what is written is worthy of being printed.  Every blogger gets to be his/her own editor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to subscibe to the Pilot (and like Vivian at one time I preferred the Ledger Star), however a couple year&#8217;s back I cancelled by subscription.  For me it was a money saving thing.  Since I was the only member of my household that read the Pilot, and something like 90% of my time was spent on the road where I might purchase USA Today to get my news, my wife argued, and I had to agree, that it didn&#8217;t make sense to keep paying for it.  The overwhelming majority of the papers delivered were never read at all.</p>
<p>If Il spent most of my time at home instead of on the road, I would probably still subscribe for local news coverage.</p>
<p>Now, the complaints about bloggers.  Let me offer this rebuttal.  Even if most bloggers only piggy-back on the work of journalists, it offers additional value to society.  It offers the blogger the opportunity to write a &#8220;letter to the editor&#8221; without having to face the judgement of the editor that what is written is worthy of being printed.  Every blogger gets to be his/her own editor.</p>
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		<title>By: MB</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134757</link>
		<dc:creator>MB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134757</guid>
		<description>Eh.  Let them bleat.  They&#039;ve got real competition*, and no one really gives them the benefit of the doubt (that they&#039;ve been exploiting for years) anymore.

Anyway, they&#039;ve only got themselves to blame for this.

*Sort of.  Honestly, 99% of blogs are complete crap/reprint services.  But that 1%?  Better than most anything you can find in print.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh.  Let them bleat.  They&#8217;ve got real competition*, and no one really gives them the benefit of the doubt (that they&#8217;ve been exploiting for years) anymore.</p>
<p>Anyway, they&#8217;ve only got themselves to blame for this.</p>
<p>*Sort of.  Honestly, 99% of blogs are complete crap/reprint services.  But that 1%?  Better than most anything you can find in print.</p>
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		<title>By: Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>http://blog.vivianpaige.com/2008/07/08/newspapers-woe-is-me/comment-page-1/#comment-134752</link>
		<dc:creator>Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vivianpaige.wordpress.com/?p=3475#comment-134752</guid>
		<description>The striking line from Mr. Luzzatto&#039;s editorial, I think, was this one:

&lt;blockquote&gt;With a few exceptions, bloggers spend their time complaining about or amplifying stories traditional journalists have written. In newspapers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This was where the entire logic for Mr. Luzzatto&#039;s column fell apart: yes, a ton of what a lot of bloggers do is rehash or amplify the stories the mainstream media is already covering.  This blog post is actually a perfect example of that: it rehashes a Virginian Pilot editorial with the addition of the blogger&#039;s opinions.  But it illustrates a very useful lesson for the journalist: &lt;i&gt;I would not have read Luzzatto&#039;s column had Vivian not linked to it, &quot;complained&quot; about it and &quot;amplified&quot; it.&lt;/i&gt;

Honestly, how does more people talking on the internet about something interesting they read in the newspaper hurt your cause?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The striking line from Mr. Luzzatto&#8217;s editorial, I think, was this one:</p>
<blockquote><p>With a few exceptions, bloggers spend their time complaining about or amplifying stories traditional journalists have written. In newspapers.</p></blockquote>
<p>This was where the entire logic for Mr. Luzzatto&#8217;s column fell apart: yes, a ton of what a lot of bloggers do is rehash or amplify the stories the mainstream media is already covering.  This blog post is actually a perfect example of that: it rehashes a Virginian Pilot editorial with the addition of the blogger&#8217;s opinions.  But it illustrates a very useful lesson for the journalist: <i>I would not have read Luzzatto&#8217;s column had Vivian not linked to it, &#8220;complained&#8221; about it and &#8220;amplified&#8221; it.</i></p>
<p>Honestly, how does more people talking on the internet about something interesting they read in the newspaper hurt your cause?</p>
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