Comments on: No to Lee-Jackson Day, Yes to Virginia Heritage Day

By: Snaggle-Tooth Jones

Snaggle-Tooth Jones — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:49:07 +0000

I’d like YOU to explain. (Sorry)

By: Snaggle-Tooth Jones

Snaggle-Tooth Jones — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:48:27 +0000

Mr. Brooks, while I’ll admit Walter’s post was mostly a rant, I’d like to explain to us what you find “racist” about it.

**looking at watch**

**tapping foot**

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:17:46 +0000

You know, Walter, it’s really sad when no one will even argue with you.

It’s not that I don’t disagree with you, it’s just that your remarks are both sad and comical. I do disagree with you.

You might want to look into some education for that big racist yoke you have around your neck.

By: Walter Ring

Walter Ring — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:21:38 +0000

Yet another insensitive, intolerant call to abolish a White Southern holiday. Funny how everyone who claims to do the things they do in the name of tolerance, sensitivity and respect are themselves the most INtolerant, Insensitive and DISrespectful people alive.

Tell you what. If Virginia would totally abolish the holiday for the womanizing communist plagarist negro king, THEN we could possibly discuss Lee-Jackson Day. On second thought…NAHHH. Virginia has honored Robert E. Lee for 120 years and Jackson for 105 years and I have personally honored Lee and Jackson for most of my life, including attending a public event for these two White Southern heroes for at least the last 20 years. We will NEVER stop honoring Lee and Jackson, we will NEVER honor the communist clown and if you do not like that…MOVE!!! OLD VIRGINNY is my home and it is alive and well!!! White Southern Solidarity!!!

By: Snaggle-Tooth Jones

Snaggle-Tooth Jones — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:43:14 +0000

Lee-Jackson forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwEM0Cak_5w

By: Carla

Carla — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 03:26:32 +0000

Yes he does…along with Harriet Tubman and many others who promoted the cause of freedom for blacks…of course…history fails to focus on the fact that there were many free blacks in the south during the war that had businesses and were quite profitable…there were also black confederate solidiers that fought for the south…there were also northerners that held slaves…this is an issue that is so complex and far ago…let history remain as it is…history…and let it speak for itself…Virginia is rich in our history and I feel we deserve the right to honor anyone in our history that led us to this day…we were the first to elect a black Governor, Mr. Wilder…can’t there be something to be said for how far we have come as a Commonweath? We honor Arthur Ashe with a statue…why not let our history honor a civil war soldier who defended our state? Citizens of Virginia…please unite…we are from one history that involves many races and many people…and God has blessed us with this diverse culture and we should all stand proud!

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 02:39:03 +0000

Carla- Frederick Douglas comes to mind.

By: Carla

Carla — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:36:10 +0000

If Lee and Jackson should not be singled out in Virginia’s History and should be included into a Virginia Heritage Day, then why not forgoe the Martin Luther King, Jr. day as well…he obviosuly was just one man amoung many who represented civil rights changes in this country. He was a good man but not one so mighty and great that he should stand alone and have his own day amoung famous black men and women in our country…we are splitting hairs here folks…

By: Anon E. Mouse

Anon E. Mouse — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:44:48 +0000

You’re right MB — they finally passed it in 1992. (I am getting old.) They were the 49th State to do so.

Still, why not have a Virginia Heritage Month — let’s make it February — and Lee-Jackson Day can be a special day therein!

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:39:38 +0000

Of course, don’t fit your little stereotype or fit quite right in your little box and be quiet we need not here from you. Let us just put you away in a corner and hope no one recognizes that you can think like an individual and not follow the herd. We would much rather have you just step in line right MB? I did not question your integrity, so i would appreciate you not question mine. Glad that I could be of some “entertainment value” to you.

By: MB

MB — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:20:07 +0000

Zrii, you’re nothing special (if that’s who you really are – and I tend to think you’re not). That some black people can be ignorant hateful bigots, too, well . . . that isn’t news to anyone. Anyway, I think we’ve wrung out the remaining entertainment value, here. Now git.

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:41:12 +0000

Like me, you mean a Virginian who just happens to African-American, educated at the great University of Virginia and is proudly Conservative in the tradition of Michael Steele. You konw your right—there is very few places for me to go I guess. I wonder why that is exactly? Could it be that you liberals reject any Black man who rejects your Party line. I guess I should be apologetic for why my Church rejects gay marriage and my fellow Baptists had the absurdity to stand up to the liberals in California.

As far as Malcolm X goes I think it was a reference to the fact in thirty years might the perception of that American be changed as well but I could be mistaken.

By: Ward

Ward — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:09:37 +0000

Great now we should include a militant,drug dealer and convicted buglar in with MLK you are joking, the following is from the web site set up by Columbia University “Malcom X During World War II, the zoot-suited “Detroit Red” became a small-time hustler, burglar, and narcotics dealer in Harlem “

By: MB

MB — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:13:17 +0000

Arizona *does* recognize MLK Day. Sorry, Zrii, you’ll have to move to . . . gosh, where *can* a person like you go?

By: Anon E. Mouse

Anon E. Mouse — Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:03:15 +0000

You’re right, Mark — we should have Heritage MONTH (like Black History Month), and Lee-Jackson Day therein, just like Martin Luther King, Jr. Day.

Zrii — Arizona does not recognize MLK Day.

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:41:33 +0000

Curious, Lincoln and King are celebrated as Federal Holidays are they not? The State may recognize the holiday but they are Federal in origination right? Could you ever forsee a Federal Holiday that Virginians would not endorse or one in the future that would create controversy? Why segregate King from Malcolm X now that more and more works about him are being written by scholars in a better light?

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:51:40 +0000

Are they worthy of a holiday, like Washington, Lincoln, and Martin Luther King, Jr?

I say that they are honored, and have been for some time, in this fashion is out od perspective with the overall history of Virginia.

Why segregate Lee and Jackson from the heritage of Virginia?

By: Anon E. Mouse

Anon E. Mouse — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:44:24 +0000

Why can’t we have BOTH a Lee-Jackson Day, and a different date for Heritage Day?

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:08:38 +0000

I believe, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, that this is about more inclusiveness, not less.

It matters not about the Lee Mansion, that he freed his slaves before the war, that Jackson taught slaves in the basement of the church in Lexington. What does matter is perspective. If we fail to include all the heritage in Virginia, we really do a disservice to all of the history of Virginia.

There is arguably more history and heritage to celebrate in Virginia that one war, one man, two men, the entire Confederate effort.

Lots has been said over the last few days about this subject, lots of it alarmist. My favorite is the idea that somehow Christmas will be forever ruined if we do this terrible thing. As someone whom I respect replied, “Then Jesus was in favor of slavery?”. It is a horrible comparison, but not any more horrible or ridiculous than the conflation of Lee-Jackson Day with Christmas and the Easter Bunny.

I suggest we all learn to live together and to love one another, because we really don’t have anyone else. We love those around us mostly from an emotional loyalty.

Let’s not forget that there are others who have no ‘Heritage Day’, and I am not only talking about ancestors of slaves.

The key here is, do we love ourselves enough to be righteous in our beliefs and yet respect others’ as well?

Only time will tell.

By: Kevin

Kevin — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:54:03 +0000

It is quite a bit of irony that Robert E. Lee and Martin Luther King Jr. were born within 4 days of each other. Lee (1/19/1807) and MLK (1/15/1925), thus making the issue over Lee-Jackson Day and MLK Day a possibility. Changing the name from Lee-Jackson Day to anything else does a great disservice to a truly great man (An American that so loved his home state of Virginia, that he took up arms against his country) and all the people in this country that want to ignore our History (at least the bad part of it) and do away with an honor to a Great Virginian in the name of political corectness, really makes me wonder what is happenning to our Great Nation. Yes, Slavery was BAD and our Nation suffered the consequences of allowing it to exist within our borders, but Robert E. Lee was a man of Honor, who fought for his beloved state and not for Slavery.

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:26:39 +0000

Why is MB’s criticism any different than mine? I feel almost left out here…

However, I must say, this is as entertaining as a Manassas battle on a Sunday afternoon!

Pass me the picnic basket.

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:24:29 +0000

I do declare, Scarlett, you are trying my patience.

You will surely get the vapors if you continue!

By: MB

MB — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:09:37 +0000

Zrii, the only one doing any attacking here is you. Now settle down and leave your poor tail alone. And me, Virginia Gentleman? No thanks. Hangar One, up with a twist. Please.

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:46:27 +0000

MB-Showing your true character. Obviously not a Virginia Gentleman. So full of hate it seems that he would attack a disability like that. God aweful. Have you no shame, Sir? You must be a very very small person indeed.

By: MB

MB — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:01:34 +0000

Awww, Zrii, that’s sweet. And I wasn’t even getting started.

Alter: seriously, read it.

Ward, I think you’re getting a little confused. Calm down.

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:52:28 +0000

MB: How hateful. As if you didn’t know, Alter is blind jackass!

By: Anon E. Mouse

Anon E. Mouse — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 13:46:09 +0000

“Lee was on the wrong side of history…”

Lee did not approve of slavery. My understanding is that, prior to the Civil War, one’s military oath was to his State. Hence, Lee’s duty was to his state, and he obeyed the call.

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:02:59 +0000

Wheeee!

By: Carla

Carla — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 02:46:54 +0000

We rest tonight in the arms of old Virginia…my birthplace…my home…and I stand with honor to her and all of her trimuphs and sorrows…right or wrong…we are united and rest peaceful tonight because of a country who fought for what it thought was right at the time…may we all continue to share our differences but be willing to defend the cloth we all rely upon…our dear American flag and the freedom it offers to all Americans in 2009…

By: Ward

Ward — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 02:44:14 +0000

MB & Brian
It pains me to think that there are fools like you out there that may influence lesser educated people or bully someone with your complete fabrication of history and the truth. Secondly, how dare you insult Carla on how her parents raised her? Carla is entitled to her opinion just like you. Since you have thrown down the glove let me say that I have also read your comments on this subject over at “Bearing Drift” where you continue to insult educated people who unlike you have actually studied the Civil War. Your comments about the military
“why it is our current military is overwhelmingly filled with the ranks of Southerns who see place a level of service very high in its moral code; I wonder just where the roots of that come from friends?? “
This has changed my mind about you, you sir; are dangerous. Before you go insulting my family let me tell you who I am, I won’ t hide behind an anoymonus name like you accused History Scholar of doing over at Bearing Drift although he’s 10 times more informed than you ever will be on history. My name is Ward Moore by Great, Great, Great Grand Farther was a Scottish Captain who fought in the American Revolution My Great, Great Grandfather was Albert Sidney Johnston, my Great, Great Uncle was Joseph E Johnston, yes Confederate General’s, my Uncle lost a leg on Omaha Beach and my father’s unit the “102 Timber Wolves” were one of the first unit to cross the Rein in WWll. Myself I’m a Vietnam Era Vet and a retired Virginia Army National Guard First Sergeant with over 30 yrs of service and I would love to debate the Civil War and what our Military is made of with you face to face. I have served with some of the finest men in America from all races and religions. I always respected their beliefs and values and they respected mine. In all my years of service I never heard one of them complain about being stationed on a base named after a Confederate General which there are several, nor did I ever hear them complain about Lee-Jackson Day. These fine American deserve to be remembered as the facts of history record their actions and not be swept under the rug by COWARDS like you.

By: MB

MB — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:57:58 +0000

Alter, I really don’t know what to say to you that’s useful in any sincere way. Except, maybe, to suggest that you spend a little more time reading what you write. I mean, I’m not in much of a position to play grammar/spelling cop, but some of your stuff is completely incomprehensible.

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:43:44 +0000

My ancestors, who fought on both sides of the war, are rolling in their graves at the sheer stupidity of some of these arguments.

What I got from Alter:

Sir, sir, friend. History, burn UVA. You are a cut-n-runner. Just asking.

By: Alter of Freedom

Alter of Freedom — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:36:14 +0000

Excuse me Sir. Wrong side of history? Thats the point friend. I am a Virginian sir and therefor her history is my history and her totality is something I am very proud of peaks and valleys. I do not pick and choose what I like about it and praise that, but take it in its totality. In large part Virginia contributed as much as any other to our Founding doctrine sir, which apparently do not sit well with you either. Burn down UVA, its founder being a slaveholder, burn down George Mason, Washington & Lee and stop funding immediately V.M.I. with tax payer dollars as it fought on the battlefield at New Market for the Confederacy. Lets rename these institutions after those in which you prefer but have no connection to our States past I guess. The more and more this issue gets more feedback it even greater persuades me that those men were greater than those of us today as citizens for good reasons. How many of us would fight for something at great risk to ourselves and families and within our communities on a daily basis under what could only be described as depression like settings in cities like Richmond or Atlanta and continue to do even at ones own peril….gee it didn’t take long for some here to turn on the Iraq War in 2005 did it? Easy when its thousands of miles away isn’t it. Now imagine if it was going on here in our streets or State like Gaza today, what would be your view? Cut and run I imagine given you seem so fine with dislocating yourself with Virginia’s past; the good and the bad, the great and the tragic. Just curious but if you take away that history do you not undermine just how signifant it was to have Virginia support the President-elect in November? Just asking.

By: MB

MB — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:57:22 +0000

why it is our current military is overwhelmingly filled with the ranks of Southerns who see place a level of service very high in its moral code; I wonder just where the roots of that come from friends??

That’s easy – cultural fetishization of the military and a lack of alternatives.

Lee was on the wrong side of history, and so are you. For good reason.

By: Alter of Freedom

Alter of Freedom — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:41:45 +0000

Carla the problem is the history books frankly. You see the characters of the civil war whether in your view were protaginist or antaginist have been used for purposes uncontrolled by themselves. You think descendents of Lee or Jackson are proud of how their ancestors have been twisted and shaped to be something other than the reality of their time. We call it revisionism or politcal correctness.
My passion as a a student of history began touring every battlefield with my father; a Pennsylvanian. You see Carla it transcends modern times as it did when these tours began in the early 70′s. Whats changed? Have Lee and Jackson changed? has there actions or words changed? Clearly not but perception have and why exactly is that? Its begcause modern day lenses are being applied to a culture of a different time and place. We expect people then to see the world as we do today and that simply, if your are to remain true to history, canot be undertaken if you are to have any creditibility. What should we say about those say in the industrial revolution concerning climate change? Could it possibly be they were particpating in an age that simply did not know any better or a time less evolved either in science or thought. I alaso challenge folks to find the word “racist” during the time and era in debate here. Exactly when did this word begin to be used in our history. Did Lincoln call the Southerns “racist”? I wonder why now we use that term as a tool of reflection and through a modern lense when there was no accussation of such by those on the side of opposition to the likes of Lee or Jackson. In fact, Lee was sought after by Lincoln and the War Department of the Union afterall regardless of his history or his ancestors of slave holdings. Evidently, the issue did not appear to matter much to them did it not? Why? Well, could it be that many many Union Generals held slaves or had families rich in tradition that had held slaves. Should we then turn our sights on every prson of character in our history who had association with the peculiar institution in the same manner and apply the same standard or are we saying we only apply it to those who took up arms.
Ask yourself if you even know in the mid-1800′s if people saw themselves as Americans first or say Virginians, North Carolinians or Ohioians or Pennsylvanians? And like those over at Bearing Drift who are rich the wealth of the same old rhetoric have yet to answer just why it is our current military is overwhelmingly filled with the ranks of Southerns who see place a level of service very high in its moral code; I wonder just where the roots of that come from friends??

By: MB

MB — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:04:46 +0000

Carla, I see that you're a victim of an affliction found throughout the Commonwealth - you mistake politeness for intelligence. Here's let me help you a bit:

Robert E. Lee, my dear woman, was a ~~noble~~flawed, reverent, and highly ~~decent~~overrated man who served brilliantly and ~~galliantly~~ treacherously in defense of ~~a state’s~~ government's right to ~~succeed~~ subjugate some human beings for the financial benefit of other human beings.

There, fixed that for you. I can go on, of course, but that little worldview you've got yourself wrapped up in is pretty tight - not a lot of stuff gets in there, it seems. I imagine that that's why you (and others like you) seem so terrified whenever someone suggests it open up a bit.

By: Carla

Carla — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:58:21 +0000

Kind MB, Sir, please read your history books that obviously gather dust as there is nothing I have stated that is in least bit imagined about the history of these fine Virginia gentlemen. The honorable job my parents did to this day enables me to stand toe to toe with you in any arena a defend the South’s history. My only hope is that your lack of knowledge does not fail our future Virginians and dilute it’s rich past.

By: MB

MB — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:48:08 +0000

The problem, of course, is that Carla’s parents not only failed her, but that she’s probably failing her own children by perpetuating such nonsense. I used to think that things like this would simply die with time. I’ve come to realized, however, that when you have people who have nothing else but some imaginary past to hold on to, the remain incredible committed to pretending as if there were actually something to it.

By: Carla

Carla — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:22:16 +0000

As a proud Virginian, I was raised to admire great men and women in history who were exceptional during their time. Robert E. Lee, my dear woman, was a noble, reverent, and highly decent man who served brilliantly and galliantly in defense of a state’s right to succeed. You need to read a bit more history as you obviously don’t understand that Lee-Jackson Day is not to honor the Civil War but to simply honor a man and his accomplishments. Lee detested the war but Mr. Lincoln forced his hand and Robert E. Lee was a soldier’s soldier and chose to defend his home state of Virginia and her people. How dare you tamper with my Virginia history!

By: Alter of Freedom

Alter of Freedom — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:41:22 +0000

Sorry Mark, my head got to far ahead of me. We should not let those that would use these men as swords for their own cowardice or ignorance filled agendas to tarnish the true legacy of these great men and we should expose them for exactly what they are by illuminating the true character of these men to dismiss such myths perpetrated upon our history. Case in point, if during segregation in the Deep South the Stars and Baers was used to signify or illustrate a meaning beyond its intent in the 1860′s we should not dismiss those that lined up behind it in the lense of the that agenda but the lense of the 1860′s in which they lived. We must remember our State Flag was carried right next to the Stars and Bars by Virginia regiments….should our State Flag be tarnished in the same manner through the lense of modern thought?

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:29:14 +0000

…but the fact remains we cannot let those people who indeed disgraced the legacies of these great Virginians.

Let them what? Can you clear this up for me?

By: Alter of Freedom

Alter of Freedom — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:00:22 +0000

The Jason Kenney post over at Bearing Drift may ring true in some regard Viv. but the fact remains we cannot let those people who indeed disgraced the legacies of these great Virginians. What we must “fix” and endeavor to address is calling out those cowards who would use men such as these for there own agenda by throwing up the true history of these men in the context of their era.
A huge research project in college was on Jackson and concentrated on the pre-war Jackson and trust me when I tell you had Jackson lived during our Civil Rights movement he would have been in the front of the march along side those heroes. The fact that so litte is truly known about this man is tied to how people distorted his legacy to benefit themselves and now we are all stuck with it. That simply is not fair and that is what we must “fix” IMHO.

By: Zrii Bee

Zrii Bee — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:53:00 +0000

FRankly, we don’t have enough Holidays. I see no reason to end this one, in fact we should add a few I think. In terms of State holidays I thinkwe can find a few “Virginians” worth celebrating in this fashion.
I wonder will we not have a State holiday say in 2030 or round abouts for Doug Wilder? And if not, why?

By: Mark Brooks

Mark Brooks — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:25:29 +0000

“Liberty” indeed.

By: vjp

vjp — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:24:55 +0000

Yep. This is the best comment I've read so far.

By: MB

MB — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:21:40 +0000

Like clockwork.

By: Bob

Bob — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:53:10 +0000

It is indeed a sorry time when folks like you wish to change history to suit your perspective of it…to rewrite it to please your self-interest. Leave it alone! Don’t you have some more important issues to address? It is sad that you have so little respect and understanding for two men who were above reproach in all that they were during their lives.

By: Ward

Ward — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:26:40 +0000

There was alot more to the civial war than just the use of slavery but most people who do not study history relate it to that one issue. Gen. Lee & Jackson went to west point with Grant and Sherman they all fought in the Indian wars and Mexico side by side. Most of the Military of that time were drawn to one side or the other not by the use of slavery but because of where they were born and where there homes were located. Get over trying to change history and understand it. It’s not like the people who have proud southern heritage are asking for a white history month or the white college fund to be started.

By: James Cross

James Cross — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:52:48 +0000

Your idea needs to be thrown in the trash can. We are proud of our Lee/Jackson holiday and it should stand for ever. MLK has more recognition around the state than either. Next it will be Obama day to precede Black History Month. Give me a break.

By: MSR

MSR — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:24:08 +0000

On a related note, are you aware that the February holiday is officially “Washington’s Birthday” here in VA, even though it falls on the same day everyone else calls “President’s Day”. You see, that “President’s Day” holiday resulted from joing together the Washington’s and Lincoln’s birthday holidays when they created MLK Day. In VA we wouldn’t want to be celebrating Lincoln would we?