Contrary to the Pilot’s assertion this morning, I really haven’t written much about George Allen and the M-word scandal. But I feel like I need to weigh in on the latest issue making its way around the blogsphere: the 1996 photo (click to enlarge) of then-governor Allen with members of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC). The quick and dirty is that Allen attended the Conservative Political Action Conference and the CCC was one of the sponsors. Allen posed for the picture with some of the members plus Charlton Heston. In 1998, it was discovered that the CCC was a racist group and the CPAC and most lawmakers have distanced themselves from it.
I don’t think the nature of the CCC is in doubt. The only question I have is how much did Allen know about this group and when did he know it? That information would go a long way towards letting us – his constituents – really know what he thinks about groups like this.
VIVIAN J. PAIGE | All Politics is Local 
It’s really not relevent, since it is theoretical.
I wonder what the country would be like if…
…Gore were prez, 9/11 didn’t happen, we didn’t invade Iraq…
Plenty to ponder, but the fact that Allen DID get his photo taken, and has yet to answer about “what he knew, and when he knew it,” about the CCC are very real and relevent.
Well Zen:
I pose that question because I do not think Civil War reenactors are racists. Webb goes to the living history displays at the Gettysburg Reenactment, and get photgraphed with members of a unit (now Webb makes no bones about his Confederate American Heritage in Born Fighting).
Later it is discovered that some members of that organization wrote letters that were considered racist (hypothetically, because anyone can be offended by something), but then that particular group of reenactors becomes labeled racist.
I would not think that is fair to Webb, who enjoys history, and just wanted to meet and greet with fellow historians (which is basically what reenacting is all about).
George Allen is at CPAC, a bunch of different groups looking to get their organization recognized, be it Pubs for Rice, Human Events, Melvin for Dogcatcher, whatever… (It is a battle for eyeballs and minds) Allen is photographed in front of Pubs against the War… what can that possibly say besides, he was at CPAC and they asked him for a photgraph, and he obliged.
You guys are looking to have a “chilling effect” on every political event in the US, by trying “to play gotcha”, and linking someone to a particular group with a photo? You guys are doing absolutely nothing for Freedom of Expression in United States politics. So from now on, politicians need to stay at home, and never be seen in public for fear of being attached to some group. Hear that Vivian? I think you can empathize with this situation, and I am glad you do not have to sympathize, with this kind of “gotcha” malarky!
That kind of politics is BS, and everyone of you know it! This is just an effort of “slime Allen, at all costs”! Consequences be darned!
So it’s just some strange sequence of coincidental events that Allen just so happens to embrace, as an outsider, the bygone glory days of the south, just so happens to embrace the confederate flag and it’s symbolism, just so happens to hang a noose in his office (again for it’s symbolism), just so happens to support Trent Lott’s comments on Strom Thurmans b’day (before distancing himself from them), just so happens to be against honoring MLK with a national holiday, just so happens to wander into a photo with men that just so happen to run a white supremacy organization, then in his remarks at a campaign event he just so happens to think to pick on, ridicule and ostracize a man of a darker complexion, he just so happens to use a term that just so happens to be a type of monkey, and this term also just so happens to be a racial slur in a part of the world where his mother just so happens to be from, and in a language that Allen just so happens to speak, when pressured about it he just so happens to gove about ten different and equally ridiculous exuses, all of them lame, and finally calls the man himself nearly two weeks later…
It seems extremely unlikely these are really just a strange series of unrelated events that just appear to be related. Most people look at these events that share a common theme and see a clear pattern. Now if that pattern is not clearly racism, then it is clearly a lack of judgment. Either way it illustrates that Allen is not qualified to represent Virginia in the US senate. It’s really that simple.
Is this an updated version of the old Duck Test! If it looks like a duck – walks like a duck – quacks like a duck – and acts like a duck – if we believe Spank that Donkey – then it’s gotta be a turkey!!! Zen points out too many coincidences. I’m sticking with the old Duck Test.
It took the “victims” of that group two years to discover their motives, why should Allen and Heston have known any sooner?
Alton – I don’t know what you mean by “victims” but we agree that the it was not exposed as racist until 1998. Whether Allen knew that in 1996 or when it became public knowledge in 1998 is the question.
i agree with STD that Webb is diverting attention away from the issues. As for Zen, what about Hillary on Byrd’s B’day… Byrd is a former KKK member and all these Dems are shoruding him. If that’s the standard then Republicans should go after Hillary, Schumer and all of his friends that are implicated as being around a “former” member of a supremist group. I would be ashamed and embarassed to use a campaign tactic like Mr. Webb… He had a right to confront someone who was trying to publicly ridicule him. The thing is that both candidates are spin doctors. Webb is trying to build momentum bc it is an uphill struggle.
The consensus is that people are tired of Mr Webb’s finger pointing. After labor day George Allen will bury Webb on TV. This is a match that will be decided by the superiority of their advisers. Last week, Chris Matthews cam out and said Webb lacked the fire in the belly and the passion. He contrasted him with Steve Laffey who is running for senate in rhode island.
We should see this as a tactic designed to portray him as a bigot. It was employed by Jimmy Carter in 1980 who supposedy had a “tight race” until Reagan buried him. I think it’s interesting that Webb call Reagan a hero. He is a complete contrast and is nowhere near the likes of Ronald Reagan. Reagan would be apalled at Mr Webb’s campaign and his big government agenda.
Eric – you are really reaching here. Webb has said nothing about any of this. Webb has pointed no fingers.
Whether or not George Allen is a bigot stands on its own. One only has to look at his record.
Webb served in the Reagan administration. Were you not aware of that? And Carter never played a race card.
Who hired you to go around and attempt to spread misinformation? So far, nothing you have posted has any substance to it. At this point, I’m pretty close to marking your posts as spam.
Well said Vivian. I too have run into Allen apologists that continually spin this as a Webb creation, or Webb tactic. It’s not in question that Webb has benefited from these recent revelations about Allen. But if one merely observes the facts, this is completely a creation of Allen, and the story has sustained because Allen’s absurd, lame excuses.
Therefore, it serves Allen’s water-carriers better to lay this all on Webb…again another lame excuse.
Remind me again which party loves to tout the title of “personal responsibility” when it refers to other people?
I’ve been following this discussion and the Conservative(s) have done it again… gotten the Dem’s off track with their response being “well what about Webb, etc” rather then why hasn’t/won’t Allen answer the question. Oh and the Dem’s seem to have fallen for the tactic…. AGAIN! Eric, the question remains… what did Allen know and when did he know it. For the purpose of THIS discussion it’s NOT about Byrd being KKK and Hilary supporting him, not about Carter, it’s not even about Webb serving in the Reagan administration.
All of the above may be true (or not), who cares… I want to know what did Allen know and when did he know it. Did Webb create this debate? I don’t know and really I don’t care, the fact is Allen had his picture taken with an avowed racist group. When did he know the group was a white supremist group and when he found out did he disavow (is that a word?) himself and if not, why not? Rather then the response being “point the finger at someone else who may also be guilty of a similar uh… “faux pax,” how about getting an answer to that question! This is one of the reasons we Repubs get such a bad reputation… we DEMAND answers from the opponent then pull the same crap response to direct questions (and let me be CLEAR about something, as a NY Republican I am NOT a conservative (shivering!) unlike many southern Republicans and even so called conservative Dems and Independents (who are generally NOT Dems or Indy’s but conservatives/Republican’s in Dem/Indy clothing!)
Well, first of all if you check out Ronald Reagan’s autobiography, you will find instances where he expresses his discontent about the Carter campaign and their tactics in 1980. And as for you, Lawrence your totally wrong… it’s only wrong when it’s George Allen.. I simply pointed out examples of Dems who are guilty of the same. Vivian, check out Page 221 of ronald Reagan’s autoborgraphy,
“I think there was some pent up anger in me over carter’s claims that I was a racist and warmonger.”
Page 222
” Carter took a low road to personal attacks on my character. because I said I beleived states should be allowed to regain the rights and powers granted to them in the Constitution; he implied that I was a racist pandering to Southern voters>’
And since I have no substance.. I just won’t contribute. and no one has “hired” me.. The simple fact is that I am making a point. I don’t think you have read that book and I remember it specifically from reading it.
And I’m done putting my views here bc they arent respected… Your on a different side than me and that’s perfectly ok.
My last post on ths blog, Larry…. I think you need to check out who has been winning the national eelections lately. Both parties are polarizing and I think it’s absurd to claim that a certain party “has a bad reputation.” Dems dont agree with Repubs and Repubs don’t agree with Dems. And furthermore we’ll let Virginia decide about Mr. Allen. They have elected him twice once as governor and once as their senator. And he’s won 17% of the minority vote in his landslide victory as governor and left office overwhelmingly popular. I simply think that Mr Webb is overreaching here. Sorry that I disagree here, but I think I’ll start posting at VA Conservatives. And also Vivian I read a lot of books and I pointed out the 1980 campaign because it was bitter and I remember that part. You and I don’t read the same books so your “substance” comment was incorrect. What you mean is that the substance doesn’t satisfy your ideology. I am also aware about Webb in the Reagan administration. Ronald Reagan would be turning in his grave if he saw Webb’s campaign for “change.” I’m done posting here, and I don’t appreciate the arrogance. Oh, as for the comment about Sherry, it was not Kaine who asked her to stop using the picture it was the Democratic campaign. HMR I think your out of line, I dont thin kthe photo read much into the campaign. I would like to think voters are a little smarter. And I think that your just bitter because if you chekc the fact some of her allegations were true. Voting machinces do not work correctly.
Also about Reagan being the ‘teflon president’ he was one of the most popular presidents ever, won 49/50 states and won 44/50 states.” Your over reaching there. Sorry, now I’m done.
Eric – first of all, let me point you to this article in which Kaine is the one who told her to stop using it, not the party. Further proof that you know little of what you speak. And why would I be bitter about voting machines not working? Have you even bothered to read anything on this blog? I have complained about voting machines myself.
You have no idea what I read, so don’t try to imply that you do.
Finally, please do go over to VA Conservatives. We carry on respectful conversations here. You seem incapable of that.
Back on point: What did Allen know about the CCC and when did he know it?