In this poll, 52% say they would not vote for Hillary Clinton for president. Reading thru the comments, I found an excellent question:
Any idea where all those negatives come from? Stupid partisan comments that throw more heat than light are NOT welcome. I can see anti-war people having a beef with her. I can see Bill Clinton haters transferring the hate to her. Some people don’t like that she tried to reform health care (can’t understand why that is a problem). I think some of it may be people who don’t like women who aren’t in their place. Otherwise what gives — her positions and agenda are little different from the other Democrats?
Good question. And given how well she performed the other night, a valid one. So why do so many people – including Democrats – say that they absolutely will not vote for Hillary?
VIVIAN J. PAIGE | All Politics is Local 
As I said, BM, Foster is the summary, not the entirety.
Americans in general don´t like dynasties, even considering that so many politicians are born to politician parents. Most people thinks that she gained her political post from her husband.
When Antony Garotinho, a evangelical populist governor of the brazilian state of Rio de Janeiro put her own wife to be candidate to his sucession, everyone said that HE, not her, would be in fact the governor.It´s hard to believe that a Hillary presidency would´nt be the third term of Bill.
I don´t see why she is the frontrunner. She is not a experienced senator nor a very accomplished governor. If the matter is to elect a woman, why not Janet Napolitano or Kathleen Sebelius? They are highly popular governors in conservative states that did´nt needed her husbands to achieve that.
So, we are supposed to believe that Anon E. Mouse would have voted for Hillary Clinton if only it hadn’t been for Vince Foster.
Hold your nose, and your lunch, and let’s briefly review. This poor man died with a suicide note that said “I was not meant for the job or the spotlight of public life in Washington. Here ruining people is considered sport.”
Vince Foster’s death was ruled a suicide by the U.S. Park Police, the U.S. Congress, and Independent Counsels Robert B. Fiske and Kenneth Starr.
FOURTEEN YEARS LATER, right-wing crazies are still debating the cause of Vince Foster’s death. This is longer than they kicked up dust over Waco and Ruby Ridge. Apparently even Ken Starr is too liberal for Anon E. Mouse.
You had it right, Vince. What unbelievable, continuous, outrageous, intentional, merciless disrespect for the deceased man, his family, and his friends, including Hillary Clinton. Ironically, the ludicrous theories about Vince Foster’s death were advanced by icons of the Christian right, including the late Jerry Falwell. Some Christians.
And yet we are supposed to believe that, had it not been for Vince Foster, Anon E. Mouse would have voted for Hillary Clinton.
So, I guess he’ll have to choose among Dennis Kucinich, Barack Obama, and John Edwards, right?
Which do you think he’ll pick?
The answer to your post is simple. Sexism.
What male candidate for president would be derided for “ambition”, accused of having a “shrill” voice and being therefore “unelectable” because of such spurious claims. Men, on the right and a surprising number on the left state that they are “scared” by the prospect of a President HRC.
Such open bigotry would not be targeted at Obama because racism is no longer an acceptable part of public discourse whereas sexism has been around so long it is scarcely noticed or remarked upon.
Oppose her if you wish because of issues if you disagree but not because of a gut reaction later verbalised as dislike of her “ambition”.
hey Mimi,
I agree with you about the undercurrent of sexism in Hillary criticism and I am no fan-but to me-Senator Clinton is a neo-liberal fembot for the global power structure and that just isn’t good enough. She has perfect pitch, she had the Negroes at the PBS debate eating out of her hand, but aside from crass pandering and a record of equivocation, what does she have to sell us? I don’t think she has much and I ain’t down for another eight years of the soap opera.
Pay attention, VAB, Foster is the summation, not the entirety. There are a thousand reasons not to vote for Hillary, but they culminate in the murder of Vince Foster. I will guarantee you one thing — if HRC is elected Vice President, she will become President.
When the primaries come to VA, I’ll be voting for Richardson.
Jerry Kilgore’s speaking voice hurt him against Tim Kaine. Voices matter. A good preacher usually has a very good voice.
Noting that a person is a good speaker, or is easy to like, is not always sexism. Nor does it always have to do with their politics. Hillary Clinton’s weakness is her presentation; her lack of warmth hurts. It shows mostly in her voice.
Hillary Clinton is my fifth choice among five, but jesus you people make me want to go out and give her some money. Sexism is absolutely a factor in the negative reactions to her – not just sexism among men, either. The most vicious teardowns I’ve ever heard about Clinton come from women.
Putting aside Mousey’s wingnuttery, what really gets me is the all too common play-along-at-home game of political strategist that seems to jump to the front of the conversation when Clinton is the subject. Everyone, trying to show everyone else how much they’re in the know, declares her unelectable – she’s just too unacceptable. To everyone but the speaker, of course, who thinks she’s fine, but just stirs up too much negativity. Which is really quite frustrating, as I suspect that Clinton’s actual politics are probably a better reflection of the national whole than any other candidate’s (and anyone who’s slamming her for being a big ol’ liberal is just illiterate or purposefully misleading). This “unelectable” tempest is the result of a screeching teacup full of nutcases who haven’t shut the fuck up since 1992. And that’s a goddamn shame.
Hey MB – tell us how you really feel 🙂
I guess the 3 other candidates aren’t even on your radar.
I figured I ought to hold back a little. 🙂
As to the off the radar bunch, bless Kucinich, but I wouldn’t put him in charge of a high school, nevermind a country. He’d end up shoved in a locker somewhere. Gravel, despite his being a valuable presence, will spending next summer doing what he’s done the past few summers – nothing. And the prospect of Joe Biden as President is so nauseating that I’ve just decided not to think about it.
I’m surprised you allow such vulgarity here, Vivian.
Are your sensibilities shocked and offended, Mouse? The same ones that let loose completely unfounded allegations of murder?
Heh. Seriously, tell us another joke.
MB, I guess it depends on what you consider vulgar. For my money, calling a former First Lady, current Senator, and accomplished attorney with a degree from Yale a murderer, based not just on unfounded allegations, but on allegations that have been conclusively proven to be a shameless fabrication by the “Christian” right, is about as vulgar and obscene as it gets.
Oh I don’t dislike Kucinich THAT much. I would definitely elect him to a school board or something like that. Out in the Midwestern States they elect a “Weed Controller” who–you guessed it–oversees the mowing or spraying of weeds, and I would undoubtedly elected Kucinich to that sort of job.
The problem with answering the Hillary question is that a lot of people use stories or scandals surrounding Hillary to justify their animosity towards her–but in most cases the stories or scandals aren’t really the causation of the animosity. I’m sure a large part is rooted around sexism, and Sabato makes the point for that better than I could (I’ve never met a politician who wasn’t at least as ambitious as Hillary, but for some reason it’s only offensive to people with her). And a lot of it is simply residual Clinton hatred from the conservatives, justified by whatever excuse is found to be most convenient. I’m sure if we took a survey of folks on the street about the legal and ethical particulars of Whitewater, 98% of people would not be able to accurately articulate the details of the case. But what the heck, I hate Clinton so I’m just freaking SURE she’s in the wrong, and because she’s in the wrong I hate that uppity bitch.
An interesting thing to observe would be to see whether her negatives fall off. The long public-side of this cycle benefits Clinton extremely because she’ll have had an entire calendar year to try and redefine her public persona by the time the first primary votes are cast in Iowa, and she’s taking the opportunity to personalize herself. The “help me pick my campaign song” videos are definitely helping her with the more open-minded independents and people who have somewhat negative feelings about her. It will be interesting to see how Hillary’s positives and negatives move over the next six months. The Crystal Ball thinks she’s stuck with her public persona no matter what she does; I think if she capitalizes on the time she has available to her and the free media she gets every news cycle, she can pull it off.
And for the record, so you can judge my objectivity on the subject, I’m leaning Obama, I used to have somewhat negative impressions of Hillary back in January but now don’t have a favorable or unfavorable impression, and I remain undecided on a moniker. 🙂
And that’s another problem with Hillary — she spends so much time trying to “redefine her public persona” you don’t know who she really is.