Where the candidates stand: gun show loophole

2007 General Assemby races, Local, Norfolk, Politics, Virginia 1 Minute

VP gunshow loopholeI have to admit that none of the arguments against closing the gun show loophole are persuasive. Yet, as you can see from the graphic, there are some people who believe it shouldn’t be closed.

As always, click to enlarge. (Graphic credit: The Virginian Pilot)

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19 thoughts on “Where the candidates stand: gun show loophole”

  1. What Gun Show Loophole are we talking about?

    Are you referring to the mental health reporting loophole which is now the rage since VT?

    Or the older Gun Show Loophole, which the Pilot questioned us about, which was about private sales of firearms between individuals who are not licensed dealers?

    There are very good arguments against both, but I need to know which you are asking about?

  2. Well, I wasn’t at the interviews that the Pilot did. I assumed (correctly it seems) that the Pilot was referring to SB 827, which died in committee.

  3. Vivian, I am a VERY strong supporter of the Second Amendment, but I really do not understand the problem with closing the “gun show loophole.”

    If one buys a gun from a licensed dealer at a gunshow, the dealer does the instand background check. There is a small fee. My understanding is that the “loophole” is with non-dealers selling at gun shows. If I were to go to a gunshow and sell one of my guns, the buyer would not have to go through the instant background check.

    Well, why not? There are numerous licenced dealers who can do it for you. The law should stipulate a small fee, say $5 or $10, for the dealer’s time and trouble, in addition to the fee for the check itself.

    I would really like one of the “disagree” candidates to explain it to me.

  4. The “Gun Show Loophole” is a myth. The laws are the same at gun shows as they are anywhere else in VA. If you want to argue that gun shows should subject be more stringent laws, that’s fine. Claiming the existence of a loophole is disingenuous, however.

  5. AEM – you have just proven that you’re not Jack 🙂

    Brian – it’s not a myth, although I agree that the laws are the same. It’s just that so many guns are sold at gun shows (as opposed to private sales) that it is something that the legislature has tried to fix.

  6. OK then, as things stand now, if a Federally licensed firearms dealer, which already includes everyone in the ongoing business of selling firearms, sells a gun, at a gun show or anywhere else, a NICS database check is required before making the sale. The dealer keeps a record of the sale, which can be supoenaed if there is probable cause in the investigation of a crime. But the State and BATF are forbidden to keep a record of the sale or the people involved as that would be defacto registration.

    If someone who is not in the firearms business sells a gun he no longer wants to someone else, a background check is not required. The so-called loophole is that if these non-dealers meet at a gun show and decide on making that sale, even if it actually takes place somewhere else, they would have to go to a licensed dealer to make the sale, with a NICS check. On the surface, that doesn’t sound so bad. I wouldn’t want to unintentionally sell a gun to a criminal anyway.

    HOWEVER, the BATF and some State agencies have been caught repeatedly building an illegal database of guns and buyers from NICS searches, claiming “research” purposes. Registration of firearms historically has proved to be a step toward confiscation, and knowing that the BATF cannot be trusted to obey the law, those of us who believe in the right to keep and bear arms want to keep a sizable fraction of the firearms in circulation beyond the reach of future despots intent on disarming the citizens.

    If the BATF had a better record of obeying the law, we probably wouldn’t be so concerned, but they are a rogue agency. Remember that though the FBI got much of the blame, both the Ruby Ridge and Waco massacres were triggered by illegal BATF actions before the FBI became involved. When a government agency sees itself to be above the law, we are very reluctant to give them additional tools with which to oppress us.

  7. I’m also a strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights–and I wish the more-vocal supporters of those rights would stop being so darned crazy because they make regular folks like me and Mouse look bad by association. 🙂 We don’t want to turn Ghent into the Wild West, we just want to promote responsible firearm use and ownership.

    I also think the crazies tend to do more to stoke the desire for tighter gun control than they do to fight against it — no one really cares if I want to go hunting in the woods or keep a handgun in my home for self defense, but I also once heard someone say that the worst thing about DC gun restrictions is that you can’t bring your shotgun into the national archives to celebrate an original copy of the Bill of Rights.

    I’m sorry, but if you feel so emotional about your Remington that you want to take it in with you to see the Constitution so you can get some sort of weird, almost masturbatory rush out of the 2nd Amendment, I can frankly understand why people want to take your gun away from you.

  8. Interesting that anonymous hasn’t the “balls” to list his name!

    I agree with what Dr. Tabor wrote. I am probably one of those “crazies” someone wrote of, but if I sold a gun, I would at least get a copy of the person’s ID and would have little problem with paying Bob’s or some dealer to do the check for a fee.

    BATF has proven themselves to be the “cowboys” the Brady bunch accuses legal gun owners of being!

    So far as my right to carry is concerned; I am almost always armed. Why I choose to arm myself is no one’s concern bub my own. To be truthful, I have no particular reason other than I’d rather be armed than be in a situation where I wish I had been armed. The police cannot help me from any personal attack or home invasion or car-jacking. That is my responsibility.

    Read the news and then try to think of any of the stories that might have ended differently, with the criminal arrested, or dead, had the victim been armed and trained to use deadly force.

    One of Virginia’s stupider laws is the so-called restaurant ban that forces me, a law-abiding concealed permit holder to un-conceal my gun whenever I enter a place that has an ABC license to serve alcohol by the drink. Why is it stupid some may ask? Because criminals, remember why they are called criminals, will not obey that law, so it accomplishes nothing other than making targets of those who arm themselves legally.

    Remember, the Second Amendment does not give us the right; it acknowledges a right all humans have, that of personal self-defense.

  9. Vivian, the commenters are right. The Pilot’s question had nothing to do with the mental health loopholes. It had everything do to with gun shows where, Dr. Tabor is correct, people in the business of selling guns already must to background checks at gun shows and the ‘loophole” is people who aren’t gun dealers.

    Closing the loophole doesn’t accomplish a heck of a lot, since criminals don’t usually go to the trouble of waiting for a gun show to buy a gun from the few unlicensed dealers there. Unfortunately, there are easier ways for them, and closing this loophole simply shuts a door they wouldn’t walk through anyway.

  10. “AEM – you have just proven that you’re not Jack.”

    I am not sure if that is a good thing or not.

    Anyway, is there any data on how many guns are sold via private sales at gunshows? Is this really a big problem?

  11. Brian K – the mental health issue was dealt with by the Kaine executive order.

    If the stats provided in this post are accurate, then the number of sellers at gun shows that are not licensed is significant: between 22% & 35% of all vendors.

    And yes, AEM, it’s a good thing.

  12. Let me guess, you’ve never actually been to a gun show, have you?

    Every gun show has a good number of vendors who sell jewelry, books, coins, military souvenirs, bumper stickers and clothing as well as other items that appeal to the same crowd, but these vendors do not sell guns. Though some of the attendees may sell to each other in the parking lot, I would be surprised to find ANY non-licensed collectors or hobbyists selling guns at a gun show. It costs too much to rent a booth if you’re not there to sell something, and if you’re there to sell guns, chances are you do it for a living and not just a few times a year when the gun show comes to town. I guess its possible someone there to sell books might also have a personal firearm he wants to sell, but that’s no more likely than one of the attendees.

    You really ought to join me at the next gun show, you will never meet a more patriotic, educated or friendly crowd of people, and you will never be safer. Remember, there have been mass shootings at churches, post offices, restaurants, schools, universities and office buildings but there has never been one at a gun show.

  13. Vivian,

    So people sell plenty of guns at gun shows, why does that need to be “fixed?” Are a significant number of criminals, et. al. purchasing guns at these shows?

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