In light of recent events, now’s the time to revisit my post from last year about who is #2 and who is #3 as it relates to white females and black males.
I’m curious as to whether anyone’s opinion has changed 😉
13 thoughts on “#2 or #3?”
Comments are closed.
VIVIAN J. PAIGE | All Politics is Local 
I’ve been thinking a lot about this recently, too. I expect a lot of women are thinking about it as well. I want to ask a rhetorical question: has anyone noticed that it’s more socially acceptable for criticizing Hillary Clinton for being a woman than it is to criticize Barack Obama for being black?
That’s a rhetorical question because I already know the answer is probably, “no.” I don’t think we would use the same vocabulary to describe Hillary Clinton (“shrill” “angry” “bitch”) if we equated those words with racially-charged descriptions of Barack Obama. Remember the furor that errupted back when Joe Biden (unintentionally) described Obama as an ‘articulate black?’ He didn’t even mean it! He was trying to compliment him. Remember how litle we really cared at the end of the day when some idiot woman asked John McCain about Hillary, “How do we beat the bitch?” It was intentional, it was hostile…heck, it was hateful, and we didn’t care.
If she’d been talking about Obama and replaced the word “bitch” with a racial slur, the same crowd that laughed at her funny question would have dragged her through the street by her hair. McCain himself would have lead the mob.
We take racism very seriously in this country. We don’t take sexism nearly as seriously. I happen to think the right candidate won, but presidential elections aside: perhaps it’s time for us to take a good hard look at ourselves.
Anonymous,
The only problem with talking about race and gender issues in this context is that Clinton is not a generic white woman and Obama is not a generic black man. They are both unique individuals who inspire reactions from others — the voters, their colleagues, the media, etc. — based on who they are and how they act.
Hillary Clinton doesn’t represent all women, or all Democrats, or all of anything. And, she’s been rubbing some people the wrong way for a long time. People who are on her bandwagon simply because she’s a woman should probably give that position some more thought.
Actually, Terry, isn’t what you said true of every black person and every woman, ie, no one is generic? No one represents all of any group.
As for support – would you be willing to also say that any black person who supports Obama simply because he’s black should give that position more thought?
Fair points, anonymous, though I do quibble a bit with this:
No, they wouldn’t have laughed, but I don’t think they’d have been upset about anything besides the PR impact. And as to McCain leading the way? Recall that he’s the same man that thought it perfectly appropriate to use the word “gook” in a presidential campaign press conference.
Vivian,
Of course we are all individuals. However, my point was that the appeal, or lack of appeal, Clinton and Obama have at this time seems based almost entirely on their way of presenting themselves and the stands they have taken.
Of course, in 2008 there are still some people who would never vote for a female or any black candidate, under any circumstances. How many there are of one or the other I don’t know. It’s a lot less than it used to be and I don’t think their impact is being felt all that much in this race. Most of them probably wouldn’t vote for any Democrat, either.
My take on the burgeoning Obama phenomenon is that his popularity is based on his rather impressive attributes much more than it is on him being the No. 1 anti-Hillary. There’s just too much enthusiasm around him for it to be any other way.
And, yes, I don’t mind saying that anyone who supports Obama simply because he’s a black man should probably think more about that. Still, that doesn’t mean I am unfeeling about how significant it would be for a black man, or for a woman, to be elected president. And, I know neither would have been possible 25 or 30 years ago.
Let’s face it, after Bush’s performance on the job, a lot of people are ready for whatever seems the least like him. That has to be part of why Huckabee is doing so well, so far.
Here’s a question for you: Apart from what our society might think, how about the rest of the world? Which would surprise, or please, people in other countries more, a white female becoming president, or a black man?
Terry, we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one 😉 I see far too many comments about Hillary that have nothing to do with her stands on issues, but rather are nothing but blatant attacks based on her being female.
As for the rest of the world, I think they would be surprised with either choice, given our history. As for pleasing them? As long as it ain’t Bush, I think they will be pleased.
Terry, ignore the politics side for just a minute. Let’s stop pretending that this is about the candidates because it’s not. This is about what is socially acceptable to you or to me. This is about us.
It is obviously socially acceptable for me to say Hillary Clinton, as a woman who has been rubbing me or other people the wrong way is a bitch. She’s a shrill, angry bitch. I mean, theoretically and all. Because I actually think she’s just fine. She’s never done anything to me, her daughter turned out fairly well adjusted (which is kind of remarkable) and anyway I’ve never met her, I don’t know her all that well. But let’s just say for the sake of argument.
So much like many people hate that bitch Hillary, I’ve got this beef with Jesse Jackson, what with his whole reaction to the alleged rape at Duke university that turned out not to be true. Is it okay for me to say he’s a n**ger?
I mean, he’s not representative of ALL black people. I would certainly never call Vivian a n**ger. I probably wouldn’t even call a random stranger a n**ger–not unless he cut me off in traffic or something. Just this one guy. This one black guy I hate for reasons that actually have nothing to do with him being black. Can I call him a n**ger?
No?
How about Michael Vick? Surely we can agree on that, right? He hosted dog fighting matches at his house in suffolk. He committed heinous crimes of animal cruelty. He’s the sort of person who own’s something called a rape stand–and that’s not a euphamism! Clearly he’s universally hated enough that all of us can call him a n**ger, right?
Isn’t it kind of telling that I dare not even fill in the blanks with the missing letters because that word is so completely inappropriate for civil conversation, whereas I can call Hillary Clinton a shrill angry bitch without anyone hardly batting an eye?
We haven’t defeated racism in America, but we’re at least self-aware of it and on-guard against it. Sexism is so common place nowadays–even among women–that it’s like we don’t even notice it. We never even stop to ask ourselves why it’s publicly or politically appropriate to hurl the sort of personal, gender-based, derogatory insults we do. We just sort of accept it.
Ain’t that a bitch?
I think white females are 2, then black females, then black males. It seems to me, as a black male, there are many issues that dog us today. Black females, on the other hand, while having their issues as well, are usually better positioned.
anon – I’m going to have to get back to you.
Ian – there is absolutely no way that BM are #4. No way, no how. I’m not sure how you can even begin to come to that conclusion.
White females can be #2 as long as they’re willing to play the proper role. Once they become outspoken, the equation changes. They are more socially integrated in certain sections of society than black males, and so start out somewhat ahead. But at least at first, they have to give some deference to traditional stereotypes even in nontraditional fields. That’s why professional women are often judged based on appearance and clothing, even though there are plenty of male professionals who could not withstand similar scrutiny. They also have to answer the “who takes care of the kids” questions and “she must have had a maid” comments (actual quote about Frances Perkins, the first female Cabinet member). And it should be noted that WOMEN are some of the most sexist people around. They judge other women in ways that a guy would never dare to do.
Hillary Clinton is a special case. Some of the sexist comments coming from people like Chris Matthews and Tim Russert, among others, are just outrageous. But Hill, you’ve been a lawyer for decades. Crying, for crying out loud? And what’s with that Iraq thing?
Anon’s link, of course, illustrates the often exploited mindset of the most solid Republican voting bloc.